Anecdotes+Antidotes in B#

Lyrics

(1)

And if chewing gum is chewed
The chewer is pursued
And the smoker is pursued
In the Plaza hotel with audio wrist around

Antidotes
And those that vote
Shouting
Anecdotes
And those that vote
It was doazy votes
I saw an evil life in the Plaza, yes
And the chair in the mirror
Combs over and over

And I live an evil life
On the populace of the continents of Australia and America and Arabia
Ah...

Antidotes
Antidotes
Antidotes
You got

And I’m moving down a train over and over and over again
And the cost of tobacco is chewed
The chewer is pursued

I’m walking round the street again and again and again
And you’re set in your chair pleased
And the mirror is looking at you
From Antidotes that infract you
Antidotes and Antidotes
And dozy votes
Antidotes
And those that vote
Antidotes
And cooking anecdotes

Antidotes

And the chewing gum is chewed
The chewer is pursued
And smoking is forbidden again and again and again

And the better you had God is meedle mm shar-boose

Notes

1. B# is a strictly notional key (in practice it is identical to C natural). For more information on the lyrics, see the entry for "(Jung Nev's) Antidotes."

Dan:

 

From this song, Knitting Factory, LA, 14 November 2001:
 


And if liberty is screwed, the sports teacher rules. The sports teacher rules. And so secondary modern British Carry-On film, 'Carry On, Sir', 'Carry On, Sir'. No more inner city for you, Jimmy.

^

Comments (51)

dannyno
  • 1. dannyno | 03/04/2013
"Plaza Hotel". Could it be: http://www.cpmanchester.com/location.html?
tom_regazzi
  • 2. tom_regazzi | 19/06/2013
The opening line paraphrases a quote from the Marx Brothers' Duck Soup: "If chewing gum is chewed The chewer is pursued."
bzfgt
  • 3. bzfgt | 19/06/2013
That's all accounted for here:

http://annotatedfall.doomby.com/pages/the-annotated-lyrics/jung-nev-s-antidotes.html
dannyno
  • 4. dannyno | 18/09/2013
"The truant is pursued
And the smoker is bestewed"

I'm hearing:

"The chewer is pursued
And the smoker is pursued"
dannyno
  • 5. dannyno | 14/10/2013
Definitely chewer not truant, throughout.

I'm also hearing "and dozy doats" after some of the "antidotes" - nowhere to be seen above....
russell richardson
  • 6. russell richardson | 08/05/2015
Sorry to be pedantic but B# is indeed a key ( ask someone from Chets) and it sounds like a good exhortation: Be sharp!

'dozy doats' ( I can't tell cos I dot have this record!) could be from the formerly famous nonsense song .... followed by' a kiddly-divey too, wouldn't you?' from the 1940s: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mairzy_Doats
bzfgt
  • 7. bzfgt | 26/06/2015
I don't know who Chet is but B# would be C natural--there is no incidental between B and C.

I have the "doazy doats" stuff on the "Jung Nev" page, which I lazily linked to rather than pasting the notes here.
russell richardson
  • 8. russell richardson | 15/07/2015
more B-sharp crap:
it's a key only in theory, but that's sometimes necessary for musicologists and composers (like the sq root of -1 is for mathematicians)

The key of B# major is extremely complex and quite unnecessary because it sounds like C major. And that by using two sharps and five double sharps. But it exists: in the field of philosophy. The following quotation from the book »Ketzereien« (heresies) of Günther Anders is a nice example of the use of musical terms in communication. Using B# major as a paraphrase for complex speaking is answered with B# minor as a paraphrase for discretion.

but yeah, it's the same sound as C major, instead of having no accidentals, it has three sharps and five double sharps. yes indeed.
bzfgt
  • 9. bzfgt | 17/07/2015
This is all interesting stuff, I revised my note. It's 5 i the morning so I didn't get in deep or for long, but it looks like it's basically an exercise in writing music (no one would use a score in B# because it would be taking the easiest key to read and making it the hardest). So in that case there is a key of "E# too of course. I always assumed that the proper doctrine was that B and E sharp don't exist, but I can see someone revising this (a purely nominal move) for the sake of making the system more strictly formal--you don't need to consult content, you just follow a rule and everything comes out right, it's kind of like logic.
nairng
  • 10. nairng | 22/07/2015
"I met an evil laugh" seems like a mishearing of "I led an evil life", first line of Race With The Devil by Gene Vincent, covered by the Fall elsewhere.
bzfgt
  • 11. bzfgt | 24/07/2015
Yeah, maybe, although elsewhere it's "I saw an evil (?)" and maybe "laugh" is wrong but "life" wouldn't fit perfectly there either. "Lad"? I dunno, the lyric is a legacy from Lyrics Parade and ot attested elsewhere, this will have to be closely considered...
dannyno
  • 12. dannyno | 04/03/2017
From this song, Knitting Factory, LA, 14 November 2001:


And if liberty is screwed, the sports teacher rules. The sports teacher rules. And so secondary modern British Carry-On film, 'Carry On, Sir', 'Carry On, Sir'. No more inner city for you, Jimmy.


https://sites.google.com/site/reformationposttpm/pithy-smithyisms/in-the-2000s
Paul Go
  • 13. Paul Go | 28/11/2018
As pointed out, the quote is from 'Duck Soup', so 'the chewer is pursued' is correct.

The repetition is an essential part of the line's poetic quality. MES would not arbitrarily change and ruin it.. Chewing Chewed Chewer reflects the literal act of impulsive chewing. Who'd have thought Groucho was so clever with word play?

This sense of an impulsive act is mirrored with the repetition of 'Pursued'. You know, pursued, pursued, relentlessly pursued. These poetic devices don't need any 'Grammarly' suggestions.
dannyno
  • 14. dannyno | 28/11/2018
I think ruining poetic qualities is exactly what MES would do, or might do, and does do elsewhere.

He also regularly often what would otherwise be straight quotations. This means you can't just assume the accurate quotation is the lyric.

However, I still agree it's "chewer" not "truant" throughout.
dannyno
  • 15. dannyno | 28/11/2018
typo in comment #14: "He also regularly often what would otherwise" = "He also often distorts what would otherwise".
Paul Go
  • 16. Paul Go | 29/11/2018
...can't think of any other quotations off hand, but I'll take your word for it.

...and it seems the original lyrics are credited to 'Bert Kalmar', still a great line that depends on the repetition...blah blah blah... I realise there's no rules to these things, but even some crazy decision-flow-chart system for deciding these things would be better than a highly prompted collective ear.
Paul Go
  • 17. Paul Go | 29/11/2018
Far too polite of me, threw me off with that agreement.

You're saying ~MES has ruined the poetic qualities of quotations~ Bold claim. Care to say it to his f... I mean, demonstrate?
dannyno
  • 18. dannyno | 30/11/2018
No, my comment about ruining poetic qualities was a more general comment. I don't think he considered what he did was - generally - writing poetry anyway.

And there are 5-year old comments from me above saying it's not "truant". I wasn't alone either.

Distorting quotations, examples thereof - just see this list: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/thefall/mes-lyrical-magpie-list-in-first-posts-t42183.html
Paul Go
  • 19. Paul Go | 30/11/2018
I haven't read any of these forums yet, but half way into that list 90% were exact, the others were for the sake of brevity if anything, certainly not changing the meaning, and certainly not sneakily altering one word to another similar sounding word and changing or adding to the meaning. This is another case of someone 'creatively' listening without any mind for the context. All self evident without the fact it obscures people's ability to appreciate the song.
Paul Go
  • 20. Paul Go | 30/11/2018
"Poetry" is way too bourgeois a term for MES, although rather sweetly refering to football chants as poems in Sparta. In my defense, MES dismissing such middle class praise reminds me of a Herring line "I'm *not* saying I'm Jesus Christ, ...that's for other people to say"
dannyno
  • 21. dannyno | 01/12/2018
Comment #19. I said "distorted" and "regularly". You asked for proof. I provided proof. The rest of your comment is entirely irrelevant.

Comment #20. In what sense is "poetry" a bourgeois term or "middle class praise"? Is "bourgeois" a bourgeois term? What on earth are you on about?
Paul Go
  • 22. Paul Go | 02/12/2018
I was only saying I couldn't find another example like the issue here, which is probably what I should have said.

Maybe bourgeois is a bourgeois term now! I thought it was republican or anti-establishment term for the middle class, middle class is more of an academic term. Bourgeois being the edgier.

I think I was trying saying although he may not call himself a poet - everyone thinks of posh people poncing around in frilly shirts and tights - but he might secretly like to be called a poet, even though it is the kind of thing an effeminate middle class person like me would say.

He's pretty down on the whole middle class thing you know.
dannyno
  • 23. dannyno | 02/12/2018
"Effeminate middle class"? What?

I don't think MES had much of a political, let alone Marxist, understanding of class. I'm not sure you do, despite your "edgy" pose.
Paul Go
  • 24. Paul Go | 03/12/2018
This'll teach me for trying to be funny... I dunno Danny, I've lived up north, I know how I'm perceived.
'Middle-class revolt' is a good one, 'Bourgeois Town' too.
Paul Go
  • 25. Paul Go | 03/12/2018
And why should being down on the English middle-class automatically make them a Marxist?
Paul Go
  • 26. Paul Go | 03/12/2018
"Edgy poser", amazingly the closest thing to healthy aggression I've got so far. You are all much too nice for your own good. 'with good word, for everybody'.
Paul Go
  • 27. Paul Go | 05/12/2018
This is going way off-topic, but the idea that the man who penned 'Prole Art Threat' doesn't have a political understanding of class is totally absurd. What the hell is class without a 'political understanding' anyway? Table manners? Wearing the correct tie?
Paul Go
  • 28. Paul Go | 06/12/2018
Bare bones argument, how many other examples are there of MES changing a quote in a similarly sneaky and/or subtle way? Compared to, how many examples of quotes are there of him keeping the wording, or at least words, of a quote intact? I make it 0 to 100. If you are right with 'truant', that would be 1 to 99.

If only to err on the side of caution, something there's normally too much of here.
Bunging 'truant' in there suggests it's about kids, why would he change it to that?
There's nothing that can be said about 'bestewed', just gibberish.
Paul Go
  • 29. Paul Go | 06/12/2018
This one's a bit of a mess, next problem is:

"...again and again and again
And the cost of tobacco is dutied/duties (can't remember which one now)
The chewer is pursued"

the again and again re-enforcing the need for 'chewer' again, and again.
duties/dutied... any smokers in the rich west? Too much price... enough to make you wanna light up more.
Paul
  • 30. Paul | 14/12/2018
had a listen, on the positive, you got half the words right.

"saw an evil laugh" - needs to be more closely considered
"And those that vote" - Pretty sure this is said maybe once. Danny was on to something with 'dozy'
"And what the fuck is" - I could say the same
similarly with "an army of Aristo-men" - which is?
and "the chair in the mirror Comes over" - whowha?
"Arabia" - more likely 'Anglia'
'Have you got' - seems a bit weak, I thought 2 words anyway
'sat' - what else would he be doing in a chair? 'set',
"Antidotes and Antidotes" - I smell a cop out here, clearly the second word.words rhymes with 'chew'
"And the better knew that God is meek" - creative... wildly wrong, and it's the clearest line in the song, except for the last two words.

plus the already mentioned truant, bestewed tobacco cost chewed truant
Paul
  • 31. Paul | 14/12/2018
Again, trying to be positive, there are 8 lines, not including 'antidote', that are 100% correct.
bzfgt
  • 32. bzfgt (link) | 22/12/2018
Yeah "truant" doesn't seem right. I think these have been edited once but I need to listen to it now and check. Groucho doesn't say "truant"...."those who vote"is wrong the first time at least...
bzfgt
  • 33. bzfgt (link) | 22/12/2018
Wait I'm listening to the wrong one....hang on...
bzfgt
  • 34. bzfgt (link) | 22/12/2018
"army of aristo-men" is definitely wrong...I don't think this version has ever been edited since it came over.x
bzfgt
  • 35. bzfgt (link) | 22/12/2018
"I think I was trying saying although he may not call himself a poet - everyone thinks of posh people poncing around in frilly shirts and tights - but he might secretly like to be called a poet, even though it is the kind of thing an effeminate middle class person like me would say. "

I think this is probably not entirely wrong.
bzfgt
  • 36. bzfgt (link) | 22/12/2018
"Bare bones argument, how many other examples are there of MES changing a quote in a similarly sneaky and/or subtle way? Compared to, how many examples of quotes are there of him keeping the wording, or at least words, of a quote intact? I make it 0 to 100. If you are right with 'truant', that would be 1 to 99."

How about "Junkman lend a hand help me clear this track" or a high percentage of "Just Waiting"? "Jerusalem"? For anything more than a line or two keeping it the same would be the exception.
bzfgt
  • 37. bzfgt (link) | 22/12/2018
Yeah definitely "chewer" throughout. The one thing that sticks out like a sore thumb is "with an army of 
Aristo-men," I don't know how anyone came up with that. It sounds like "with on your wrist around." Even though that makes no sense that's what it'll have to be for now until we figure it out because it's phonetically much closer than the aristo-men stuff.
Bazhdaddy
  • 38. Bazhdaddy | 22/12/2018
Rather than go through the lines I'll just put what I hear in it's entirety. I've used "dozy votes" throughout, I've thought it that since first hearing "Antidotes" on Peel Session in '98. Made the link at the time to the previous years election which brought us Tony Blair and New Labour, but's that's entirely speculation.

And if chewing gum is chewed
The chewer is pursued
And the smoker is pursuant
In the Plaza hotel with an audio [rest abound/wrist band?]
Antidotes and dozy votes
It’s got shards in
Antidotes and dozy votes
Inward dozy votes
I saw an evil life in the Plaza, yes
And the chair in the mirror
Combs over and over

And I live an evil life
What the fuck is on the continents of
Australia and America and Arabia-ah-ah?

Antidotes and dozy votes
Antidotes, to you God

And I’m moving down a train over and over and over again
And because tobacco is chewed
The chewer is pursued

We're walking round the street again and again and again
And you’re sat in your chair pleased
And the mirror’s looking at you
From the antidotes that fract you
Antidotes and dozy votes
Antidotes and dozy votes
Antidotes, antidotes and cooking anecdotes

Antidotes

And chewing gum is chewed
The chewer is pursued
And smoking is forbidden again and again and again and again

And better you have God is [meedle on your shar-boose]***

***Yeah, I know
Bazhdaddy
  • 39. Bazhdaddy | 22/12/2018
I saw an evil life in the Plaza, yes
And the chair[man] in the mirror
Combs over and over

Jesus, this is about Trump. Dozy votes...

Feliz Navidad
Paul Go
  • 40. Paul Go | 23/12/2018
It's about CCTV in public places catching people trying to relax with various bad habits. The irony is that they are the people who often don't vote, and are therefore at the mercy of the other voter's covert fascist tendencies.

All the lyrics attest to this.
Paul Go
  • 41. Paul Go | 23/12/2018
The double talk of modern liberalism (in the Triple A IMF nations), so much of which is patently illiberal.
Paul Go
  • 42. Paul Go | 23/12/2018
Sorry, I missed the comb over joke there :D
bzfgt
  • 43. bzfgt (link) | 12/01/2019
Almost "in the pockets of" rather than "what the fuck is on" I think maybe life not laugh, it fits with "I live an"
Paul Go
  • 44. Paul Go | 24/05/2019
populace
bzfgt
  • 45. bzfgt (link) | 29/06/2019
You mean "the populace of the continents of...?"
Paul Go
  • 46. Paul Go | 30/06/2019
Yep, but as with every other word in this song it's shortened or 'sloppily' delivered.
A general issue with Mark, we're left to infer the word based on an intended meaning
I'd have to check, but it sounds more like ~pop'lus~ I seem to remember
bzfgt
  • 47. bzfgt (link) | 03/07/2019
That's a tough one. I am not confident in "pockets," but I can't quite get to populace...can others listen and weigh in? It would make sense, and I'm not sure what he's saying. A lot of this one is wrong.
Paul Go
  • 48. Paul Go | 06/07/2019
you got 'infract you', such a nice play with the expected 'reflect'

I have:
an' you’re set in your chair pleased
an' the mirrors looking at you
from a...

Antidotes infract~you

(an' being 'and')
bzfgt
  • 49. bzfgt (link) | 12/07/2019
Yeah, I don't know who transcribed this but it's a hard one to pin down for sure. I think what you have is probably closer, I'll change it...
bzfgt
  • 50. bzfgt (link) | 12/07/2019
"Bestewed" is definitely out, you guys are right
bzfgt
  • 51. bzfgt (link) | 12/07/2019
Yeah I think "populace" too

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