Gross Chapel-British Grenadiers

Lyrics

Porterage down (1)
The dark gross chapel
He stepped streets around now
Sales person mobile

Porterage down
To dark gross chapel
He stepped streets around now

Was introduced by a woman loose-limbed, slim...

One woke up to a whitewashed ugly wall - whoosh!
Made worse by dirty postcards
Trapped in their town

They're embracing criminals in panicky hall
No temper for Fall group

I'll put you down
Porterage down
To the dark gross chapel
He stepped streets around now
Sales-person, mobile

I'll put you down
To the gross chapel

You were right said Peter
Dying for a smoke
But you shouldn't have said to the police
Jobs I do are little things
Like the chemist coming on insulted (2)
They were as fed up as I was
Waiting outside after putting blame on you

Porterage down
Ask him
I am ailing
Porterage down

(3)

Then let us fill a bumper, (4)
And drink a health to those
Who carry caps and pouches,
And wear the louped clothes. (5)
May they and their commanders
Live happy in their scaly years

Whene'er we are commanded
To storm the palisades (6)
Our leaders march with fusees, (7)
And we with hand grenades
We throw them from glacis, (8)
About the enemies' ears
Sing tow, row, row, row, row, row,
Sing tow, row, row, row, row, row,
Sing tow, row, row, row, row, row,
For the British Grenadiers

Sing tow, row, row, row, row, row,
Sing tow, row, row, row, row, row,
Sing tow, row, row, row, row, row,
For the British Grenadiers 

I'll put you down. (9)

Notes

1. "Porterage" is a word that refers to what a porter does, carrying bags for people. In a military context, it is often used to describe labor that is demanded of, or often forced on, a local population by an occupying army. "Gross" is probably derived from the German "groß" which means large or great. It's possible that the words, in part, refer to a Fall gig in Germany ("They're embracing criminals in panicky hall/No temper for Fall group").

Hippie Priestess senses a possible anti-Yank theme:

According to this here website - http://www.historynet.com/battle-of-brandywine.htm- the marching song "British Grenadiers" was played before/during the Battle of Brandywine in 1777 at which the British army successfully repelled US forces, leading to the temporary capture of Philadelphia by British troops. This makes me wonder if the sequencing that puts a solemn, shadowy rendition of "GB" at the end of side one and then begins side 2 with "U.S. 80's-90's", in which MES has a mild-to-medium gripe at the long-since independent USA, is actually one of Smith's cleverest moves. This is totally ruined on the current CD edition which slaps "Living Too Late" in between the two vinyl sides.

The lyrics to the Peel version differ slightly in parts, but where they do they are mostly inaudible, at least to my ears.  

Junkman:  "Some very interesting moments in the verses where it sounds like the band have been instructed to try and throw each other off the beat momentarily. The parts where it seems to go out of time have been described as mistakes by some, but players this seasoned wouldn't be accidentally dropping or adding beats. At the top of verse 2 the rhythm guitar hits the changes a half beat ahead for 4 bars, at the end of which Hanley throws in a note a whole beat ahead, and Wolstencroft responds by doing his next set of accents a beat behind. Then they lock back into step like nothing happened. Similar stuff at the top of verse 3."

^

2. In England, a "chemist" is often the equivalent of what is called a "pharmacist" in the United States, although chemists are also called "chemists."

^

3. The lyrics from this point on are closely adapted from the traditional marching song "British Grenadiers." A "grenadier" is a soldier who carries grenades. The song in its current form dates to the early 18th century. The original lyrics are as follows:

Some talk of Alexander, and some of Hercules
Of Hector and Lysander, and such great names as these.
But of all the world's great heroes, there's none that can compare.
With a tow, row, row, row, row, row, to the British Grenadiers.
Those heroes of antiquity ne'er saw a cannon ball,
Or knew the force of powder to slay their foes withal.
But our brave boys do know it, and banish all their fears,
Sing tow, row, row, row, row, row, for the British Grenadiers.
Whene'er we are commanded to storm the palisades,
Our leaders march with fusees, and we with hand grenades.
We throw them from the glacis*, about the enemies' ears.
Sing tow, row, row, row, row, row, the British Grenadiers.
And when the siege is over, we to the town repair.
The townsmen cry, "Hurrah, boys, here comes a Grenadier!
Here come the Grenadiers, my boys, who know no doubts or fears!
Then sing tow, row, row, row, row, row, the British Grenadiers.
Then let us fill a bumper, and drink a health to those
Who carry caps and pouches, and wear the louped clothes.
May they and their commanders live happy all their years.
With a tow, row, row, row, row, row, for the British Grenadiers."
 
 
^
 

 

4. It is no longer very common to use "bumper" in this way, but it refers to a very full glass of wine (by extension, "bumper" refers to anything full or replete, hence the expression, "bumper crop.").  ^

5. A "loup" is a woman's mask, but this is probably just an archaic spelling of "looped," referring to lace or some such feature of a British Redcoat's uniform. ^

6. Here, "palisades" is probably being used in the obsolete sense of, according to the OED, "a strong, pointed, wooden stake fixed deeply in the ground with others in a close row, either vertical or inclined, as a defence." ^

7. A "fusee," more commonly called a "fusil," is a short musket.  ^

8. An embankment in front of a fort.  ^

9. A repeated offer of porterage, or something more sinister...the lyrics suggest a more complete story that we only get in snatches. This is an example of a Fall song with cryptic, yet entirely coherent, lyrics.  ^

 

More Information

Gross Chapel-British Grenadiers: Fall Tracks A-Z

The Story of the Fall: 1986

An intepretation from R. Totale on the Fall Online Forum:

 

This is one of the more impenetrable of Fall lyrics, necessitating knowledge of the specific incidents to which it refers to grasp it fully. I think the invocations of Grail mythology and the Chapel Perilous do inform its imagery.

But I think it's essentially creating a Red Shift scenario in which seperate events are linked by a common location, as in Bremen Nacht. The events being a military funeral following a battle, and a fight in a venue in which fans of the other group on the bill attack the Fall and their supporters.

I don't think it can refer to the Wormhoudt massacre - wrong regiments, and MES is a stickler for historical detail.

Here's a lit crit style breakdown of some of its elements.

Porterage down
The dark gross chapel

Porterage down I've always assumed to refer to the dead body of a soldier being borne by coffin-bearers into the chapel.. But following my parallel theory, it could also refer to bouncers carrying out the victim(s) of a mid-gig fight.

He stepped streets around now
Sales person mobile

Juxtaposition of a site in which some dark historical event took place, perhaps now a venue. The "Sales person mobile" suggests the present day.

Porterage down
Dark gross chapel
He stepped streets around now
Was introduced by a woman loose-limbed, slim

Either the woman introduced the dark gross chapel to MES, or she introduced the band on stage... or both.

One woke up to a whitewashed ugly wall - whoosh!
Made worse by dirty postcards
Trapped in their town

Crap hotel - typical of that encountered by a band on tour. But also... a barracks I suspect, hence "trapped in their town."

They're embracing criminals in panicky hall
No temper for Fall group

Pissed-up crowd prefer the other act to the Fall - who [the other act, that is] are presumably criminals, yobs or aggressive types. Also hint of night rallies and the beer-hall putsch.

I'll put you down
Porterage down
To the dark gross chapel
He stepped streets around now
Sales-person, mobile

I'll put you down
To the gross chapel

You were right said Peter
Dying for a smoke
But you shouldn't have said to the police
Jobs I do are little things
Like the chemist coming on insulted
They were as fed up as I was
Waiting outside after putting blame on you

Someone waiting outside seeking revenge after contretemps in venue?

Porterage down
Ask him! I am ailing
Porterage down

Then let us fill a bumper,
And drink a health to those
Who carry caps and pouches,
And wear the louped clothes.
May they and their commanders
Live happy all their years

Whene'er we are commanded
To storm the palisades
Our leaders march with fusees,
And we with hand grenades.
We throw them from the glacis,
About the enemies' ears.
Sing tow, row, row, row, row, row,
For the British Grenadiers.

Ironic tribute to military might? Or sincere perhaps given Smith's grandfather's war record. MES has always notably had respect for the lower, working-class ranks of soldier.

I'll put you down

Linking death and the military with male aggression in gigs and on the battlefield...

 

Bzfgt note:

 

Note that the connection between rock music and military aggression and even fascism, an inescapable association for any musician playing loud electric music to ecstatic crowds, has often been made in rock lyrics and imagery (David Bowie, Ramones, Pink Floyd, etc.).

Comments (68)

dannyno
  • 1. dannyno | 02/09/2013
Just for the record, the Royal Military Chapel on Birdcage Walk, London (Wellington Barracks), aka the Guards Chapel, was hit by a V1 flying bomb on 18 June 1944. 121 people were killed.

http://www.westendatwar.org.uk/page_id__151_path__0p28p.aspx

I note this only because lots of people have said the song seems to obliquely reference a disaster of some kind in a chapel. If so, this would seem a strong candidate. But you'd struggle to make a clear link stand up.

Dan
dannyno
  • 2. dannyno | 23/11/2013
"Live happy all their years"

I'm hearing "Live happy in their scaly years"!
bzfgt
  • 3. bzfgt | 27/11/2013
That has troubled me for a while...I knew it was wrong, but I didn't know what to replace it with.
Martin
  • 4. Martin | 15/01/2014
You could replace it with something which isn't "acaly"?
bzfgtI
  • 5. bzfgtI | 15/01/2014
Sorry, Martin, that was a typo. Thanks for catching it.
bzfgtI
  • 6. bzfgtI | 15/01/2014
"bzfgtl" is also a typo....
bzfgt
  • 7. bzfgt | 15/01/2014
Crap! They automatically filled it in the second time. Why do they do such things?
Martin
  • 8. Martin | 16/01/2014
The verse beginning "Then let us fill a bumper" and ending "Live happy in their happy/scaly years" is absent from all recorded live versions up to October 1986, before and after the official studio release of the track. By which I mean to say, there's no help on the "scaly" word from live performances, least not up to now!
Martin
  • 9. Martin | 20/01/2014
One of the few variations I can pick out in the Peel version is MES singing "cratic chapel". Cratic means, according to the Collins dictionary, "a person who takes part in or is a member of a form of government or class". Of course, this adds nothing to our understanding of the song!
Martin
  • 10. Martin | 22/01/2014
Have gone through all the live versions of the song I have (most of them) and no sign of the "Then let us fill a bumper" stanza.
bzfgt
  • 11. bzfgt | 22/01/2014
Thanks for your efforts, Martin. This site would be impoverished without the contributions of all the people who come here...

If it really is "cratic," that isn't an English word but is a suffix, of course, wirth basically the meaning you relate above (usually means a form of gov't, like "democracy" etc.). But the Greek kratia means "power," which could possibly be closest to the meaning MES intends...so akrasia, the "tragic flaw" so well known from Aristotle's poetics (or well known to academic types anyway), means something like weakness or lack of power, but has nothing to do with class or government. So "cratic" is cryptic and would call for some figgering...I think for now having it here in the comments will suffice, but I'll break out the Peel at some point and consider it. Are you fairly sure that's what he says?
thehippriestess
  • 12. thehippriestess | 16/07/2016
According to this here website - http://www.historynet.com/battle-of-brandywine.htm - the marching song "British Grenadiers" was played before/during the Battle of Brandywine in 1777 at which the British army successfully repelled US forces, leading to the temporary capture of Philadelphia by British troops.

This makes me wonder if the sequencing that puts a solemn, shadowy rendition of "GB" at the end of side one and then begins side 2 with "U.S. 80's-90's", in which MES has a mild-to-medium gripe at the long-since independent USA, is actually one of Smith's cleverest moves. This is totally ruined on the current CD edition which slaps "Living Too Late" in between the two vinyl sides.
bzfgt
  • 13. bzfgt | 19/07/2016
Hey Hip Priestess, I just wrote your name as Hippie Priestess above, then I noticed that's not what it is, and it doesn't say that on your blog either. Were you once Hippie Priestess, or have I just been reading your name wrong all this time? If so that's really odd. Anyway Hippie Priestess would be a great name for somebody if not you, although I just noticed that there isn't necessarily a Fall reference in there since you could have a hippie priestess...

Anyway thanks for the comment, excellent observation, I put it above where it will be the first thing one reads about the song...
John Coyle
  • 14. John Coyle | 12/02/2017
http://business.baylor.edu/james_moshinskie/gross.htm

This refers to the Gross undertakers' business, founded in Hot Springs, Arkansas in 1874. There are several mentions of the Gross Chapel. Did MES get the title from this?

The Peel Session version of this remains one of my all time favourite Fall moments.
Martin
  • 15. Martin | 21/03/2017
Re: the sequencing of the track on Bend Sinister (see comments nos. 12 & 13 above). It should be noted that the original cassette release, which I still own, had Living Too Late at the end of side one. Also, although the CD has received a couple of repressings, the running order of the tracks was always GB/Living/US 80s...Only the vinyl has GB/US 80s.
dannyno
  • 16. dannyno | 25/06/2017
If you look at the sleeve notes to "Bend Sinister", there is a snippet of sheet music which is apparently the original of the words and music for "British Grenadiers", as amended in MES' hand.

The word "scaly" appears quite clearly.
Martin
  • 17. Martin | 05/10/2017
I'd like to reproduce, if I may, some comments and interpretations made by R. Totale on The Fall Forum back in 2004. Sorry, I don't have the link to the original thread there, but I copied it at the time and so here it is in its entirety:

"This is one of the more impenetrable of Fall lyrics, necessitating knowledge of the specific incidents to which it refers to grasp it fully. I think the invocations of Grail mythology and the Chapel Perilous do inform its imagery.

But I think it's essentially creating a Red Shift scenario in which seperate events are linked by a common location, as in Bremen Nacht. The events being a military funeral following a battle, and a fight in a venue in which fans of the other group on the bill attack the Fall and their supporters.

I don't think it can refer to the Wormhoudt massacre - wrong regiments, and MES is a stickler for historical detail.

Here's a lit crit style breakdown of some of its elements.

Porterage down
The dark gross chapel


Porterage down I've always assumed to refer to the dead body of a soldier being borne by coffin-bearers into the chapel.. But following my parallel theory, it could also refer to bouncers carrying out the victim(s) of a mid-gig fight.

He stepped streets around now
Sales person mobile


Juxtaposition of a site in which some dark historical event took place, perhaps now a venue. The "Sales person mobile" suggests the present day

Porterage down
Dark gross chapel
He stepped streets around now
Was introduced by a woman loose-limbed, slim


Either the woman introduced the dark gross chapel to MES, or she introduced the band on stage.. or both

One woke up to a whitewashed ugly wall - whoosh!
Made worse by dirty postcards
Trapped in their town


Crap hotel - typical of that encountered by a band on tour. But also.. a barracks I suspect, hence "trapped in their town"

They're embracing criminals in panicky hall
No temper for Fall group


Pissed-up crowd prefer the other act to the Fall - who are presumably criminals, yobs or aggressive types. Also hint of night rallies and the beer-hall putsch

I'll put you down
Porterage down
To the dark gross chapel
He stepped streets around now
Sales-person, mobile


I'll put you down
To the gross chapel


You were right said Peter
Dying for a smoke
But you shouldn't have said to the police
Jobs I do are little things
Like the chemist coming on insulted
They were as fed up as I was
Waiting outside after putting blame on you


Someone waiting outside seeking revenge after contretemps in venue?

Porterage down
Ask him! I am ailing
Porterage down

Then let us fill a bumper,
And drink a health to those
Who carry caps and pouches,
And wear the louped clothes.
May they and their commanders

Live happy all their years

Whene'er we are commanded
To storm the palisades
Our leaders march with fusees,
And we with hand grenades.
We throw them from the glacis,
About the enemies' ears.
Sing tow, row, row, row, row, row,
For the British Grenadiers.


Ironic tribute to military might? Or sincere perhaps given Smith's grandfather's war record. MES has always notably had respect for the lower, working-class ranks of soldier

I'll put you down

Linking death and the military with male aggression in gigs and on the battlefield..
bzfgt
  • 18. bzfgt (link) | 18/11/2017
Shit I hadn't thought of the Grail angle but that is really suggestive--I think I'm going to plunk that under "More Information" in case anyone would miss it in the comments, that's really good stuff. As usual with R. Totale, it's definitely not a bashful account at drawing connections that might not be strongly evidenced, but it's nevertheless insightful--he also made the connection to masonry in Blindness that is think but brilliantly suggestive nonetheless...

...is MES really a "stickler for historical detail?""2000 dead Thai monks in SS uniforms"? etc.
bzfgt
  • 19. bzfgt (link) | 18/11/2017
Anyway I found the thread, I just googled part of it...
bzfgt
  • 20. bzfgt (link) | 18/11/2017
This is what I mean about R. Totale--this is totally not really attested, but how can you not love it?:

"They're embracing criminals in panicky hall
No temper for Fall group

Pissed-up crowd prefer the other act to the Fall - who are presumably criminals, yobs or aggressive types. Also hint of night rallies and the beer-hall putsch."
junkman
  • 21. junkman | 03/03/2018
Musical Note: Some very interesting moments in the verses where it sounds like the band have been instructed to try and throw each other off the beat momentarily. The parts where it seems to go out of time have been described as mistakes by some, but players this seasoned wouldn't be accidentally dropping or adding beats. At the top of verse 2 the rhythm guitar hits the changes a half beat ahead for 4 bars, at the end of which Hanley throws in a note a whole beat ahead, and Wolstencroft responds by doing his next set of accents a beat behind. Then they lock back into step like nothing happened. Similar stuff at the top of verse 3.
dannyno
  • 22. dannyno | 05/03/2018
Martin, comment #17. Here's a link to R. Totale's post on the FOF:

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/thefall/gross-chapel-t3978-s17.html#p2085905
bzfgt
  • 23. bzfgt (link) | 17/03/2018
Junkman, you mean around the "panicky hall" part? Should be compared with Peel too....is that Brix on the right and Scanlon on the left? Assuming my headphones are on right...
Junkman
  • 24. Junkman | 31/03/2018
Yes, first between "trapped in their town" and "panicky hall". Then again around "Porterage down, I am ailing". They don't do it on the peel version. I'm gonna assume guitarwise it's the more retiring Scanlon on chords, Brix on lead, but just a guess!
nutterwain
  • 25. nutterwain | 14/01/2019
Going out on a limb here but the line might be:

"One woke up to a whitewashed ugly wall - whoosh
Made worse by dirty postcard
Marked 'M Bretagne' "

The slim woman "introduced" to a member of the British Grenadiers is used sexually either against her will or not and wakes up to a whitewashed military wall.

The British Grenadiers is actually a song but according to wiki, a regiment called the Grenadiers fought the French in 1695 in the Battle of Namur. This seems to be their only victory.

Just a thought, but the slim loose limbed woman could be French...M Bretagne could be Madame Bretagne or Bretagne as in the French for Brittany.

She is subsequently dealt with by the British fixers should she bear a child, her fate unknown but glossed over by "sing tow row row..." i.e. three cheers for the British, always the good guys never do any harm"

Masterpiece of a song
bzfgt
  • 26. bzfgt (link) | 26/01/2019
I don't think it's "one woke up," though that's what I have. Maybe "M. Bretagne," but definitely not "marked."

And I don't know, that's a powerful reading but the woman doesn't seem to be the subject, "was introduced by a woman"
bzfgt
  • 27. bzfgt (link) | 26/01/2019
Definitely a masterpiece
nutterwain
  • 28. nutterwain | 28/01/2019
Sorry meant 'tracked' not marked. Perhaps 1695 post was tracked prior to postmarks
dannyno
  • 29. dannyno | 31/01/2019
Brix in conversation with John Leckie: https://www.mixcloud.com/BoogalooRadio/the-brix-show-special-guest-john-leckie-020119/. Both of them pronounce "chapel" like "shapple" not "chapple". I don't know why.
dannyno
  • 30. dannyno | 02/02/2019
"Chapel" can mean:

- Place of worship
- a group of musicians, i.e. a choir or orchestra, not necessarily connected to a chapel
- newspaper or printing office, or print workers/journalists trade union branch
dannyno
  • 31. dannyno | 14/02/2019
Chapel/shapple - could be German pronounciation. But also Sidney Poitier pronounces it that way in Lilies of the Field (1963).

Dan
dannyno
  • 32. dannyno | 14/02/2019
In the song, of course MES pronounces it "cha-pell" rather than "chapple".
bzfgt
  • 33. bzfgt (link) | 16/02/2019
I never heard bullet points 2 and 3
dannyno
  • 34. dannyno | 16/02/2019
3 is relatively common, if not widely used, in the UK.

I think I'm onto something though. Leckie and Brix pronounce it "shapple", and in the song MES pronounces it "cha-pell", which is not how "chapel" is normally pronounced in English. So either this indicates this is German or French or something, or that it's not simply a small church. Before this I had always just assumed "gross chapel" referred to some horrible/horrific (or terrible in a ugly or vomit-inducing way; somewhere containing something nasty, or where something nasty happened) little church. Or else the name of such a church - The Gross Chapel. But now I think there's something else going on that I'm missing.
dannyno
  • 35. dannyno | 16/02/2019
"Panicky hall"

Alternate lyric: It's "council hall" at the Festival of the Tenth Summer gig on 19 July 1986.
dannyno
  • 36. dannyno | 16/02/2019
At Huddersfield Polytechnic, 19 November 1986, there's a reference to "county hall", which might mean the HQ of Greater London Council at the time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_Hall,_London
dannyno
  • 37. dannyno | 16/02/2019
Also "county hall" at Woolwich Coronet, 8 November 1986.
Bazhdaddy
  • 38. Bazhdaddy | 23/03/2019
My take on the Peel version, some interesting deviations, most notably the woman becomes a "thing" and the postcards of Grenadiers;

Porterage down
The dark gross chapel
We step streets around now
Sales person mobile

Porterage down
To the dark gross chapel
Step streets around now

One look up to a whitewashed ugly wall - whoosh!
Made worse by postcards of [dead?] Grenadiers trapped in Bretagne

They’re embracing criminals in Panicky Hall
No temper, Fall group
[?] doesn’t sit on face
Bourgeois, soft lord
I'll put you down to the gross chapel
Porterage down

‘cratic chapel

“You are right” said Peter, dying for a smoke, “but you shouldn't have said to the police,
jobs I do aren’t little things”
Coming on all insulted
They were as fed up as I was
Waiting outside, putting the blame on you

Was introduced by a thing, loose-limbed, slim...
Porterage down
To the dark gross chapel
Hazchem, I a-am ailing
I’ll put you down to the dark, gross chapel

Whenever we’re commanded
To storm all palisades
Our leaders march with fusees
And we with hand grenades
We throw them from glacis,
About the enemies' ears
Sing tow, row, row, row, row, row,
Sing tow, row, row, row, row, row,
Sing tow, row, row, row, row, row,
For the British Grenadiers
Sing tow, row, row, row, row, row,
Sing tow, row, row, row, row, row,
Sing tow, row, row, row, row, row,
For the British Grenadiers

Porterage down to the dark, gross chapel
Porterage down
I’ll put you down
Bazhdaddy
  • 39. Bazhdaddy | 23/03/2019
Suggestions for LP version;

00:32 Might be "goose-stepped streets"

01:47 "one look up" and I go with Bretagne, fits with pronunciation of Chap-pel, definitely Br... something

04:34 "Hazchem" - not sure about "I am ailing" but can't make out what it is

04:54 "scaly ears"

06:00 "Hazchem" again.
bzfgt
  • 40. bzfgt (link) | 06/04/2019
"Before this I had always just assumed "gross chapel" referred to some horrible/horrific (or terrible in a ugly or vomit-inducing way; somewhere containing something nasty, or where something nasty happened) little church. Or else the name of such a church - The Gross Chapel. But now I think there's something else going on that I'm missing."

I always assumed it was German, large or great. (just checked and that's exactly what I writ...)
bzfgt
  • 41. bzfgt (link) | 06/04/2019
Cool, I'll have to check all that with the new release Bazhdaddy...the new sound could open up some lyrics, for sure.
nutterwain
  • 42. nutterwain | 09/04/2019
Pretty sure its Bretagne
bzfgt
  • 43. bzfgt (link) | 07/06/2019
Yeah "goose" is possible but I can't tell...but Peel seems more "he," it's just a little aspiration...and second time "he" is clear on BS

Both are unclear with woke/look but look seems more likely

I think it's just "trapped." on Peel, I'm having a hard time hearing enough to choose between "the town" and "Bretagne", I don't hear either there

urgh, I have to come back to this, it's driving me crazy
jensotto
  • 44. jensotto | 28/06/2019
Singing Chapel with emphasis on the e - chapelle.
I would look into Aachen (Aix-la-Chapelle) and Charlemagne. There is Kenneth Clarke's Civilisation (1969) and Verdi's Ernani (V.Hugo - Hernani)
BBC Genome (porterage) is unique: Light P. 8 Jan 1955.

GCBG one date conversion is 1973-02-07: Sidney Lumet's The Deadly Affair (Le Carre - Call for the Dead) first shown on BBC
MES Sage
  • 45. MES Sage | 08/08/2019
"Porterage down" suggestive of "porton down" GB chemical warfare HQ. Haz-chem spy thriller content.
dannyno
  • 46. dannyno | 13/09/2019
"Cha-pelle"/"Shapple"

I'm going to speculate wildly, now.

I was skipping randomly through Simon Ford's book yesterday, when I came across a mention of David LaChapelle, the photographer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_LaChapelle

Ford cites him as being in Michael Clark's orbit around The Nation's Saving Grace etc.

Thing is, I cannot connect him definitely to the song, and I don't know how his name is pronounced.

But that first half of the lyric could at a stretch be interpreted as about meeting LaChapelle, or have something to do with him in some way.

Anyway, carry on, just sometimes I like to go a bit off piste.
dannyno
  • 47. dannyno | 13/09/2019
https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2012/feb/19/david-lachapelle-interview-fashion-photography

A sojourn in London in the early 80s brought him into the orbit of Leigh Bowery and the ballet dancer Michael Clark and left him with an abiding love of all things British
Martin
  • 48. Martin | 14/09/2019
LaChapelle's name is pronounced in this interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2nfzhQepQs
dannyno
  • 49. dannyno | 14/09/2019
Hm, so not a million miles away.
dannyno
  • 50. dannyno | 14/09/2019
As noted in my comment #34, Brix and John Leckie pronounce "Chapel" closer to how LaChapelle's name is pronounced, and MES has more of a "ch" sound than a "sh" sound.
nutterwain
  • 51. nutterwain | 18/01/2020
Instead of:

Porterage down
Ask him
I am ailing

I'm hearing:

Porterage down
Ask him
I am Haig

As in general Haig?
bzfgt
  • 52. bzfgt (link) | 19/01/2020
it doesn't sound clear to me at all
gizmoman
  • 53. gizmoman | 30/01/2020
Re the exaggerated pronunciation of chapel, could Mark be saying Chap - Elle? I.E. he she? playing on a double meaning? (chap being an english term for a man and elle french for woman).
bzfgt
  • 54. bzfgt (link) | 01/02/2020
Maybe but I really doubt it. But maybe, yeah. Two languages, mind.
Chris
  • 55. Chris | 23/02/2020
It's funny to me that you've written "panicky hall" which seems like gibberish when the actual phrase (to my ears) is clearly "Carnegie Hall"!
bzfgt
  • 56. bzfgt (link) | 14/03/2020
Yeah I imagine I inherited that from the Lyrics Parade, I'll check it.
bzfgt
  • 57. bzfgt (link) | 14/03/2020
OK it sounds clearly like "panicky" to me, not even close, and it's not clear "Carnegie" makes more sense since that would put us in America
Chris
  • 58. Chris | 15/05/2020
@bzfgt (57) Carnegie Hall is named after Andrew Carnegie who was British so that does relate to the title of the song.
dannyno
  • 59. dannyno | 16/05/2020
Comment #58.

But it would need to sound like "Carnegie", which to many of us it doesn't.

Just also to note that Carnegie is mainly known in Britain as an American philanthropist (not sure his Scottish roots are so well known, might be wrong about that) who funded public library buildings - many of which still exist (there are some in Manchester).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Carnegie_libraries_in_Europe

We're missing the key to this song!
bzfgt
  • 60. bzfgt (link) | 14/06/2020
But wherever Carnegie is from, why is there a scene in America inserted?
dannyno
  • 61. dannyno | 06/09/2020
I don't think there is.
bzfgt
  • 62. bzfgt (link) | 06/09/2020
Me neither, that's my point
dannyno
  • 63. dannyno | 11/05/2021
"Like the chemist coming on insulted"

Note #2 mentions that chemist = pharmacist. And given that, how coincidental is it that the preceding track on Bend Sinister is... Mr. Pharmacist...?
dannyno
  • 64. dannyno | 11/05/2021
"Hazchem"

If that's really what it is, it could be an abbreviation of "hazardous chemicals", as in the Hazchem warning notices used on vehicles transporting dangerous substances:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazchem
bzfgt
  • 65. bzfgt (link) | 15/05/2021
63 don't be naive, it's hardly a coincidence

64 yes but I am filled with doubts
Sam Wren
  • 66. Sam Wren | 16/06/2022
When I first heard this my mind automatically went to the German bombing of the Guards Depot Chapel in 1944 and assumed that it was an oblique reference to that or, perhaps, one of the sources of inspiration.
dannyno
  • 67. dannyno | 27/06/2022
Comment #66, Sam Wren: you mean the bombing I referred to in comment #1 back in 2013?

Sorry if that comes over a bit irritable! As I say there, it's the most obvious connection if we're looking for a real-world incident. But it's hard to find any further lyrical correspondences to make the connection more compelling as a reference.
sam wren
  • 68. sam wren | 01/11/2023
Dannyno, yes. My bad. I don't have any explanation for how I missed that other than, maybe, drinkin' and postin". Mea Culpa.

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