Bill is Dead
Lyrics
Last week after Dynasty (2)
I had crows feet under my eyes
Paid two days for getting high
Freezing
Wheezing
Got pasted in a bar (3)
I hope I've got the number
These are finest times of my life
This is the greatest time of my life
This is the greatest time of my life
These are the biggest times of my life
But just lately seeing you
I rise a.m. off pink sheets
I am renewed
I am aglow
Red brick and green is the streets
You dressed today as if for riding school
Your legs are so cool
Came twice
You thrice (4)
These are the greatest times of my life
Notes
1. From Reformation:
"Bill is Dead - which everybody assumed was about my dad and his mate Bill - began as a piss-take of The Smiths. Only later did it become something a little more personal."
And:
Interview on La Stampa, Holland, broadcast 5 April 1990: " 'Me and Craig got together and Craig said let's do something Smithslike, and the original lyrics were like, 'My heart is going, I'm at the bus stop, ooh ooh ooh', all that sort of stuff. But then Craig wrote a really nice tune so I thought we can't do that, so I wrote it off the top of my head. Bill was my father's best friend, but that was the original piss-take title."
The title tips its hat to Captain Beefheart's "Bill's Corpse," the last line of which is "And you should have us all/ oh, you should have us fall..." (not that "fall" is a particularly obscure word!).
Dan quotes the following from an interview in the Sounds magazine of February 3, 1990 (behind a paywall, unless your a British University student) "Mark E Smith Extricates Himself":
"We wanted to do something slow, but it’s not a love song — it’s about the Manchester scene a year ago, before it got fucked up. I don’t go to the Haçienda any more. I used to go once a month but it’s like mainstream now. It’s full of A&R men, students and people from Surrey."
From Ivor Cutler's "Phonic Poem," about a family that gets into a car accident (thanks to Peter):
Dad has a cut on his lip, it hit the wheel as he drove fast
Mum cut her cheek, see how it shines
Bill is dead, he lost his blood in the crash
Kate, Ann and Ted are sad for Bill, he was their chum
2. Dynasty (1981-1989) was a "prime time soap opera" which told the story of the oil-rich Carringtons of Denver, CO. It has been speculated that "Bill is Dead" is about Brix. This may or may not be the case--both Smiths have denied that the songs on Extricate are, in general, about the former Mrs. Mark. However, the show was canceled before the marriage was, which may or may not be significant.
From Hanley's book (thanks to Dan):
‘This is it!’ she exclaimed, her eyes wild. ‘We’ve gotta gig in Woolwich and no fucking drummer. I can’t take this anymore. I have spent the best part of three years in fear of my life because of that man [Karl Burns]. Like when we played with Khmer Rouge and he crouched in the wings to shoot fireworks at them. Marcia’s my friend. How could he do that? And that time in Liverpool when I ordered a TV for backstage and he took it apart, piece by piece, so I’d miss Dynasty.’ She pronounces it Die-nasty.
[Note to Yanks: the Brits pronounce it "Din-asty," as MES does here]
3. See "The Air" by Frank Zappa (Uncle Meat) which contains the line "I'm freezing/I'm wheezing." MES is known to be a fan of Zappa, particularly the 60s material (thanks to Thop Daverty from the Fall Online Forum).
"Pasted," according to some of my lime sucking comrades, can mean "drunk," but more commonly means "beaten up" (we lack consensus on this). I am pretty sure it is the former meaning that is intended here, and Rob points out that if he was beaten up, the usual form would be "I got a pasting in a bar." If that is correct, the suggestion could be that MES has met a woman in a bar and wakes up hoping he got her number. However, if he got the crap kicked out of him, the "number" in question is a little more difficult to interpret--license plate number? Woman he met before he was beaten? Lottery number, so that he can pay the loan sharks who beat him up if it hits? Who knows?
From Steve:
"'Pasted' in Manchester means battered. You might also use battered to mean fucked up after caning it on drink and drugs. In this case, pasted does have a double meaning as in 'paste'- the sticky, pasty form of speed when its fresh from the lab or been kept in moist conditions (and not necessarily crystal meth). Of course, Smith is referencing that hence losing two days (but also celebrating 'the greatest times of my life' as you do when you've been through all manner of scrapes but are charged on fast drugs). Yet he's able to feel love too in the arms of his lover and see beauty afresh and feel that those are the greatest days of his life. The song is just a celebration of being alive. And now he's dead. Shame."
4. Reformation again:
In an interview with Paul Lester in Melody Maker on September 1, 1990 MES made the presumably throwaway remark that the song was "about the ecstasy of the sex scene [in Manchester]." One hopes this verse isn't meant to be taken as straightforwardly sincere, in any case, at the very least for "Your legs are so cool."
More Information
Comments (65)
- 1. | 13/10/2013
- 2. | 06/01/2014
Worth noting the equivalence of the title "Bill's Dead" with that of the track "Bill's Corpse" from Captain Beefheart's Trout Mask Replica.
- 3. | 04/06/2015
From
"Mark E. Smith Extricates Himself", John Robb interview with MES, 'Sounds' magazine 3 Feb 1990.
MES says, following up on Scanlon's comment that the guitar "was for a love song":
"Mark E. Smith Extricates Himself", John Robb interview with MES, 'Sounds' magazine 3 Feb 1990.
MES says, following up on Scanlon's comment that the guitar "was for a love song":
"We wanted to do something slow, but it’s not a love song — it’s about the Manchester scene a year ago, before it got fucked up. I don’t go to the Haçienda any more. I used to go once a month but it’s like mainstream now. It’s full of A&R men, students and people from Surrey."
- 4. | 18/07/2015
"Got pasted in a bar"
i've always thoughtlessly taken "pasted" to mean "completely drunk" or "wasted" (the latter word appears in 'The Air' too). But actually, now I come to think about it, it actually means "beaten up". Which is also a theme in "The Air". I can't believe I've misinterpreted this all these years.
i've always thoughtlessly taken "pasted" to mean "completely drunk" or "wasted" (the latter word appears in 'The Air' too). But actually, now I come to think about it, it actually means "beaten up". Which is also a theme in "The Air". I can't believe I've misinterpreted this all these years.
- 5. | 18/07/2015
I mean, "pasted" can mean either drunk or beaten up. I think the latter seems more common, but I don't know.
It gives us an opening to think about the song in different ways anyway.
It gives us an opening to think about the song in different ways anyway.
- 6. | 24/07/2015
I don't know, I don't ever remember saying or even really hearing "pasted," it must be a limey thing. I put some nonsense about it above, let me know if you have aught to add.
- 7. | 24/07/2015
Apparently with Extricate the Fall "returned to form" (that Sounds thing)...they are eternally getting bent out of shape and returning to form, and I think sometimes the return to form becomes the bend out of shape when the next one comes along...I think though that that's a common notion about Extricate, isn't it?
- 8. | 03/09/2015
Mark E Smith was probably put on to Dynasty by Brix. In Hanley's book he mentions that Brix watched Dynasty (while on tour), so I came to think that there might be a reference to Brix in the Dynasty line. Or at least given their proximity, Mark and Brix watched it together. There might be something similar going on equity Eleni and Gossip Girl... Ha. (I can find the quote from Hanley if interested, but I fear this level of obsession and involvement over who watched Dynasty may be bordering on insanity.)
- 9. | 05/09/2015
No, no, by all means find the quote! We can't be worried about our sanity whilst there's work to be done...
- 10. | 10/03/2016
This is the Hanley quote:
‘This is it!’ she exclaimed, her eyes wild. ‘We’ve gotta gig in Woolwich and no fucking drummer. I can’t take this anymore. I have spent the best part of three years in fear of my life because of that man. Like when we played with Khmer Rouge and he crouched in the wings to shoot fireworks at them. Marcia’s my friend. How could he do that? And that time in Liverpool when I ordered a TV for backstage and he took it apart, piece by piece, so I’d miss Dynasty.’ She pronounces it Die-nasty.
- 11. | 01/06/2016
Pasted much more often used to mean very drunk than beaten up when I was growing up (welcome to the Midlands 80s/90s). Though might be used to describe how one team lost to another so yes, beaten... But I always read it here as very drunk (and so may have mislaid the number)
- 12. | 29/06/2016
Yes, to me it seemed he obviously meant "drunk," from context and all. I do think Dan overthinks it sometimes but if it's rare one way and common the other we have to at least consider it means something less intuitive.
- 13. | 18/10/2016
I think if someone means beaten up they would write 'got a pasting' in a bar - never heard anybody say they got pasted but heard plenty people say it the other way
- 14. | 20/10/2016
To my ears, the first line is: "Last week, I felt a dynasty", a ruefully ironic sentiment given MES's subsequent hangover. I'm not convinced that the soap opera is at all relevant, despite the ostensible anecdotal evidence. Three syllables are clearly sung, and no "r" sound can be heard. I'm absolutely convinced that this is the line, and I encourage all to have another (very close) listen.
- 15. | 21/10/2016
There is an aspiration before "dynasty" that sounds like a subtle "a." But what the hell would "I felt a dynasty" mean? I've never heard anyone use the word that way in my life, nor do I have any idea what it would mean if they did. Google returns "No results found for "felt a dynasty"" so no one is on record saying that on the internet, even to speculate that MES is saying it, until now. And to me it sounds like "After (a-)Dynasty" as much as anything--there may be no "r" but he's English and they do that sometimes, and many people drop "r"s when they're singing, even Americans. And there is certainly no "t."
So, your opinion on this is recorded here for all to see, but I can't go along with it.
So, your opinion on this is recorded here for all to see, but I can't go along with it.
- 16. | 21/10/2016
Plus MES is on record all over the place with circumstantial evidence for Dynasty as he has mentioned being an aficianado of these kind of shows--I can't remember if MES himself has mentioned Dynasty but I seem to recall him mentioning Dallas, Falcon Crest and whatever that show Nate Will Not Return is based on...maybe not Falcon Crest. I just have a vague and general memory of him mentioning night time soaps in more than one or two places...
- 17. | 22/10/2016
Yeah, it's just an "aspiration", as you say. it's not a word.
- 18. | 22/10/2016
Yeah, it's just an "aspiration", as you say. it's not a word.
- 19. | 13/02/2017
I'm with M.S.Pierce on this - beautiful line
- 20. | 13/02/2017
The NME interview 19.7.86 MES says he has a tortoise named Bill. I wonder if it died in the bad winter of '89?
- 21. | 16/02/2017
The following analysis of the song taken from this website: http://songmeanings.com/songs/view/3530822107858632853/ may be of interest (the "great job" comment refers to whoever put up the lyrics on said site):
Great job overall, especially "riding school", which tends to throw some people off (I've seen "right in school" !), and improves the subsequent punchiness of "legs ... so cool."
However, while I could be wrong, I'm fairly certain you're missing the article "a" before "Dynasty", which should not be capitalized, as I assume the usage is slang in Marky's typically personal manner, likely referring to a night on the town involving various intoxicants and attempts to meet members of the opposite sex. Hence, "got pasted in a bar" coming just before "I hope I've got the number" refers to a phone number the protagonist procured from a potential acquaintance who, one can only assume, lacks a "Y" chromosome, and eventually becomes the lady friend he now wakes up with.
As you have it, "D"ynasty would have our narrator up all night watching a horrid American prime time soap opera while drinking stout, perhaps mildy entertaining but hard to imagine worth paying "two days" for and contributing to "the greatest time" of his life.
Taking this thought further, the contrast of the initial "last week", filled with hangovers, with "but just lately", and which he's "renewed" and "aglow" suggests a change and the potential for an ongoing relationship, the key word here being "seeing", which would not make sense for a mere one night stand, supported further by "you dressed today" (as opposed to how she dressed yesterday, last week, etc.). No, it seems our scruffy hero may have fallen into having a (gasp) honest-to-god girlfriend, the "pink sheets" telling us he's staying, or at least frequenting, an abode in which a female selects the bedding (good call on her part -- one can only imagine the condition his place is in!)
Great job overall, especially "riding school", which tends to throw some people off (I've seen "right in school" !), and improves the subsequent punchiness of "legs ... so cool."
However, while I could be wrong, I'm fairly certain you're missing the article "a" before "Dynasty", which should not be capitalized, as I assume the usage is slang in Marky's typically personal manner, likely referring to a night on the town involving various intoxicants and attempts to meet members of the opposite sex. Hence, "got pasted in a bar" coming just before "I hope I've got the number" refers to a phone number the protagonist procured from a potential acquaintance who, one can only assume, lacks a "Y" chromosome, and eventually becomes the lady friend he now wakes up with.
As you have it, "D"ynasty would have our narrator up all night watching a horrid American prime time soap opera while drinking stout, perhaps mildy entertaining but hard to imagine worth paying "two days" for and contributing to "the greatest time" of his life.
Taking this thought further, the contrast of the initial "last week", filled with hangovers, with "but just lately", and which he's "renewed" and "aglow" suggests a change and the potential for an ongoing relationship, the key word here being "seeing", which would not make sense for a mere one night stand, supported further by "you dressed today" (as opposed to how she dressed yesterday, last week, etc.). No, it seems our scruffy hero may have fallen into having a (gasp) honest-to-god girlfriend, the "pink sheets" telling us he's staying, or at least frequenting, an abode in which a female selects the bedding (good call on her part -- one can only imagine the condition his place is in!)
- 22. | 18/02/2017
Two things. I am not convinced even slightly, yet, by "felt a dynasty," but this is America after all and it is recorded here for anyone who wishes to differ.
Second, I have always suspected that MES was singing to more than one woman here, so the "lately" stuff and the "got the number" may be two people. But on the other hand he could also be time-jumping, as the comment suggests. I am not convinced more by one of these than by the other.
Second, I have always suspected that MES was singing to more than one woman here, so the "lately" stuff and the "got the number" may be two people. But on the other hand he could also be time-jumping, as the comment suggests. I am not convinced more by one of these than by the other.
- 23. | 19/02/2017
What preceeds "Dynasty" is not the indefinite article, but an artefact of the way MES sings "after": "after-ah".
However, as we've found it is a bit difficult to work out the exact narrative. It is easiest to see the lyrics before the "greatest times" verse as referring to the past incident (albeit only a week away), and then we move after the "greatest times" verse into the contemporary situation.
However, as we've found it is a bit difficult to work out the exact narrative. It is easiest to see the lyrics before the "greatest times" verse as referring to the past incident (albeit only a week away), and then we move after the "greatest times" verse into the contemporary situation.
- 24. | 25/02/2017
Dan, aside from the assertoric mode, that was exactly what my statements above were meant to convey about "a Dynasty." My judgment at the moment, that is, is that this is a meaningless aspiration, kind of like the famous "-ugh" only before a word rather than after.
Your conjecture about the temporality of the verses seems reasonable to me.
Your conjecture about the temporality of the verses seems reasonable to me.
- 25. | 10/03/2017
"There can sometimes be an upside to the morning after. At least I think that's the message to take from the Fall's Bill Is Dead, in which an inveterate drunk is led to get "pasted in a bar", at which point he meets a new love, and the best time of his life ensues. Admittedly, the tone of the song is so miserable you think you might just be being had, but still."
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2010/jan/07/readers-recommend-hangover-songs
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2010/jan/07/readers-recommend-hangover-songs
- 26. | 21/04/2017
Ivor Cutler's "Phonic Poem" (from the Velvet Donkey LP) includes the line "Bill is Dead". I remember John Peel playing it not long after Extricate came out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFSqpg2Y5gY
- 27. | 21/04/2017
I love Ivor Cutler. I'd be surprised if MES did, but I enjoy the connection anyway.
Peel played Phonic Poem, according to http://peel.wikia.com/wiki/Ivor_Cutler, on 22nd February 1992, two years after "Extricate" came out.
Peel played Phonic Poem, according to http://peel.wikia.com/wiki/Ivor_Cutler, on 22nd February 1992, two years after "Extricate" came out.
- 28. | 26/11/2017
If he paid 2 days for getting high he probably got drunk(pasted) at a bar as a result and hopes he has the number for his drug dealer cause he is ready to get high again. You guys dont know shit about whats going on in this song.mark likes the crystal methamphetamine.
- 29. | 26/11/2017
And in the first scene of the video he comes out of the bathroom stall and rubs his nose like he just did a line of meth
- 30. | 26/11/2017
He is saying the greatest times of his life is when he is high on crystal meth
- 31. | 26/11/2017
Well, I agree that "paid two days for getting high" is an obvious drugs reference, maybe "pasted" is too. But it also seems that's it's all this shagging that the narrator is referring to as "the greatest times" - or being part of "the scene" is, in some sense, as MES has said. It also ought to be noted that there is actually no particular reason for thinking the song is about MES's subjective experiences.
- 32. | 26/11/2017
People shag on crystal like crazy. You ever done it dannyno? It turns people into sex crazed maniacs. Lol.. mark like to do the crystal and fuck.
- 33. | 26/11/2017
Mark like to do the crystal and fuck hard while singing totally wired
- 34. | 30/11/2017
Indeed.
But there's nothing of that in the song, is there?
But there's nothing of that in the song, is there?
- 35. | 01/12/2017
WEll Dannyno i guess its all a matter of interpretation with this one. To me its about doin crystal meth. Based on the lyrics that would be my interpretation but the only one who could truly say is mark e smith. One thing i will say on this topic.mark was a brilliant man fueled by amphetimines but by the mid 90s he had done significant damage to his brain with all the speed and turned into a drunken shell of his former self. By 1994 he looked 15 years older then he was. Its a shame such a brilliant talent destroyed his gift with heavy heavy substance abuse.
- 36. | 02/12/2017
Hmm, on Gramme Friday I seem to remember commenters being very insistent that I had the wrong kind of speed in the notes, when I mentioned meth...I'm not going to sort it out tonight, but such is what we must reckon with before we forge ahead with this line of thinking.
- 37. | 02/12/2017
Most likely bzfgt crystal meth was the type of speed mark was referring to in gramme friday. Dr morel was hitlers doctor. Dr morel was giving hitler injections of crystal meth.part of the reason the nazis took over europe was because they were on crystal meth and could stay up for days fighting. Eventually the alias figured this out and alot of soldiers on both sides were taking crystal meth in pill form. Hitler was high as a kite the last 5 years of his life
Dr morel was most likely using it as well.they found his personal diary and in it he had listed all the shit he was giving hitler. One of those things was rat poison and bull seman.only a tweaker would do that!
Dr morel was most likely using it as well.they found his personal diary and in it he had listed all the shit he was giving hitler. One of those things was rat poison and bull seman.only a tweaker would do that!
- 38. | 02/12/2017
Morel was giving Hitler loads of drugs, of which crystal meth was but one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Morell#Substances_administered_to_Hitler
"Crystal methskin" appears in the "Voices 2" chapter of Renegade, for what that's worth.
But we are way too far into the realm of speculation here for me.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Morell#Substances_administered_to_Hitler
"Crystal methskin" appears in the "Voices 2" chapter of Renegade, for what that's worth.
But we are way too far into the realm of speculation here for me.
- 39. | 02/12/2017
Whats renegade dannyno?
- 40. | 03/12/2017
Mark E Smith's biography, of course. Anyone presuming to speak of MES's use of psychoactive drugs needs to be familiar with it as a key source.
- 41. | 04/12/2017
Is it a good read dannyno?
- 42. | 04/12/2017
It depends what you want from a book.
- 43. | 23/12/2017
I used to have "meth" and people said I was thinking of the wrong kind of speed...anyway, we know it's speed.
- 44. | 23/12/2017
Morell is already in the notes to Gramme Friday.
- 45. | 15/02/2018
'Pasted' in Manchester means battered. You might also use battered to mean fucked up after caning it on drink and drugs. In this case, pasted does have a double meaning as in 'paste'- the sticky, pasty form of speed when its fresh from the lab or been kept in moist conditions (and not necessarily crystal meth). Of course, Smith is referencing that hence losing two days (but also celebrating 'the greatest times of my life' as you do when you've been through all manner of scrapes but are charged on fast drugs). Yet he's able to feel love too in the arms of his lover and see beauty afresh and feel that those are the greatest days of his life. The song is just a celebration of being alive. And now he's dead. Shame.
- 46. | 17/02/2018
Thanks for that, Steve, I just plopped it in above as is if you don't mind.
- 47. | 07/07/2018
I feel vindicated on the pasting front.
- 48. | 29/08/2018
Pasted..well he liked a dip. The song Bill is obviously about him going a drug bing and getting home and convincing her not to dump him. he came twice.
we have just gotta be carefull what words we put into the 'legend' crap mark and the many rest of the Fall must be fckn sick to death of this 'oh a genius is gone ' crap .
Let the thing speak for itself and look at the output AND non commercial puritanical artistic delivery. they will probably be the ISIS of working class music for a long time.
i remember the 80's in Cheetham hill,salford and Prestwich . the Smiths were grammer school ponses ,oasis were clear clone beatle kareoke and the carpets seemed to spend more time at the haidressers.Sean ryders dad was cool with the 'levellers Five' following in the footsteps of musical parody .Tony wilson et al were up their arses. the hacienda was a disco , a shrine to long gone happenings. Even john cooper Clarke was having a bad year(s) . We would often bump into him in Prestwich sainsburys...staring at the chocalate biscuits ...hypnotised in his leather and shades,comp,lete with iron cross,all in the days before Nico fell off a bike.
What was left except The Fall ,!
The Drones, Dead kennedys, Peter and the test Tubes , to be fair we must compare like with like and the yankee equivilent of the Fall would be Frank Zappa and the Butthole surfers.BUT they are NOT alike ,they are entirly independant/autonomous.
as a very young hippie/pothead , i met this deadpan psycho madman at a mates flat in the early 80,s he was very convincing. i still hav nt had my two balanced xlr cables back ,the k**nt, i did nt realise it was him until 1998, too late to chase him up.
origional and always best, my kids loved Creep and I'm Frank when they were little much fckn better tha fun factory and Bananas in pyjama's to educate your kids.
If you like the rolling stones and Quo and half of the rest.....then your dead already and have been for a long time
we have just gotta be carefull what words we put into the 'legend' crap mark and the many rest of the Fall must be fckn sick to death of this 'oh a genius is gone ' crap .
Let the thing speak for itself and look at the output AND non commercial puritanical artistic delivery. they will probably be the ISIS of working class music for a long time.
i remember the 80's in Cheetham hill,salford and Prestwich . the Smiths were grammer school ponses ,oasis were clear clone beatle kareoke and the carpets seemed to spend more time at the haidressers.Sean ryders dad was cool with the 'levellers Five' following in the footsteps of musical parody .Tony wilson et al were up their arses. the hacienda was a disco , a shrine to long gone happenings. Even john cooper Clarke was having a bad year(s) . We would often bump into him in Prestwich sainsburys...staring at the chocalate biscuits ...hypnotised in his leather and shades,comp,lete with iron cross,all in the days before Nico fell off a bike.
What was left except The Fall ,!
The Drones, Dead kennedys, Peter and the test Tubes , to be fair we must compare like with like and the yankee equivilent of the Fall would be Frank Zappa and the Butthole surfers.BUT they are NOT alike ,they are entirly independant/autonomous.
as a very young hippie/pothead , i met this deadpan psycho madman at a mates flat in the early 80,s he was very convincing. i still hav nt had my two balanced xlr cables back ,the k**nt, i did nt realise it was him until 1998, too late to chase him up.
origional and always best, my kids loved Creep and I'm Frank when they were little much fckn better tha fun factory and Bananas in pyjama's to educate your kids.
If you like the rolling stones and Quo and half of the rest.....then your dead already and have been for a long time
- 49. | 01/09/2018
"the ISIS of working class music"
I think that is the new motto for this site, thank you for that! I mean, not really, but still...
Anyway, I enjoyed your reflections, although I enjoy "Gimme Shelter" once in a while and hope it doesn't mean I'm dead already...that sounds rather dire.
I think that is the new motto for this site, thank you for that! I mean, not really, but still...
Anyway, I enjoyed your reflections, although I enjoy "Gimme Shelter" once in a while and hope it doesn't mean I'm dead already...that sounds rather dire.
- 50. | 27/01/2019
Calling em Isis is a bit extreme ,sorry.
These days people watch youtube and get disturbed by conspiracy theorists revealing pedophilia and masonry ,and how the who Royal family stuff is about treating us all as cattle ,and how centralized power is taking over .Many moan on about how normal people are being economically,culturally.socially,politically ignored.
Well before BBC Manchester,Jimmy Saville ,Cyril Smith, Stuart Hall ,operation Cleopatra....etc... (Lancashire based).....The Fall gave us Lucifer Over Lancashire ,and Fortress Deer Park ,Leave the Capitol . MES was very aware how easy it was to be bought up and spat out .
Tony Wilson /Factory Records/ Hacienda .,,,Inspiral Carpets , Ohassis , and lots of individual creative musicians knew at the height of the 'Beatles and acid hippy Manchester Sound music 'market' that none of em could would/could EVER equal the sheer grit n chips and musical /artistic /political philosophical authenticity of The fall....although obviously a few hundred dumped band members may disagree.These people KNOW they are still inferior to The Fall today.
The Rolling Bones......they made some great tracks years ago and have made a good bit of dosh. My favorite Stones album is ' Its great to be Straight' by Black Grape .
Drugs.....MES was into speed earlier on.There was a lot of it about,especially with the Wigan casino nutters although not meth as our grandchildren know it today .EEH aye up...the old days ...when Cocaine was usually only seen at Xmas just like my parents in earlier years were treated to an orange. I suspect MES liked the whiskey and pop being part jock /ginger.
Growing up in the post hippie mid 70's nhs junkie /era in Salford /Prestwich/ Manchester and seeing older people doing speed and barbiturates (and what drugs do to hippy acid casualties!) was a good education for me and if there is one Fall track that is demonically prophetic,and .....still ......presently alarming ,its
Mr.Pharmacist
since that time ,years ago ...drug addiction has gone up HUNDREDS of times....
Its one of only three Fall tracks that I have used for busking......(they are not very commercial......Imagine a busker singing Mr.Pharmacist or I'm Frank as you go to Lidl !)
if any working class people would help I would rebuild the musical Caliphate on the Prestwich/cheetham Hill/Crumpsall borders ,maybe at the closed down(?) art college ,enshrine MES as the deity with Brix as Madonna of patience.
Crap commercial worker drone music would invite suicide bombs on BBC pretend 'Salford quays' .MES knew they were the devil.
These days people watch youtube and get disturbed by conspiracy theorists revealing pedophilia and masonry ,and how the who Royal family stuff is about treating us all as cattle ,and how centralized power is taking over .Many moan on about how normal people are being economically,culturally.socially,politically ignored.
Well before BBC Manchester,Jimmy Saville ,Cyril Smith, Stuart Hall ,operation Cleopatra....etc... (Lancashire based).....The Fall gave us Lucifer Over Lancashire ,and Fortress Deer Park ,Leave the Capitol . MES was very aware how easy it was to be bought up and spat out .
Tony Wilson /Factory Records/ Hacienda .,,,Inspiral Carpets , Ohassis , and lots of individual creative musicians knew at the height of the 'Beatles and acid hippy Manchester Sound music 'market' that none of em could would/could EVER equal the sheer grit n chips and musical /artistic /political philosophical authenticity of The fall....although obviously a few hundred dumped band members may disagree.These people KNOW they are still inferior to The Fall today.
The Rolling Bones......they made some great tracks years ago and have made a good bit of dosh. My favorite Stones album is ' Its great to be Straight' by Black Grape .
Drugs.....MES was into speed earlier on.There was a lot of it about,especially with the Wigan casino nutters although not meth as our grandchildren know it today .EEH aye up...the old days ...when Cocaine was usually only seen at Xmas just like my parents in earlier years were treated to an orange. I suspect MES liked the whiskey and pop being part jock /ginger.
Growing up in the post hippie mid 70's nhs junkie /era in Salford /Prestwich/ Manchester and seeing older people doing speed and barbiturates (and what drugs do to hippy acid casualties!) was a good education for me and if there is one Fall track that is demonically prophetic,and .....still ......presently alarming ,its
Mr.Pharmacist
since that time ,years ago ...drug addiction has gone up HUNDREDS of times....
Its one of only three Fall tracks that I have used for busking......(they are not very commercial......Imagine a busker singing Mr.Pharmacist or I'm Frank as you go to Lidl !)
if any working class people would help I would rebuild the musical Caliphate on the Prestwich/cheetham Hill/Crumpsall borders ,maybe at the closed down(?) art college ,enshrine MES as the deity with Brix as Madonna of patience.
Crap commercial worker drone music would invite suicide bombs on BBC pretend 'Salford quays' .MES knew they were the devil.
- 51. | 23/09/2019
Former Sounds writer and NME features editor, and GQ and Loaded editor/publisher James Brown posted this on twitter during a discussion of this song:
https://twitter.com/jamesjamesbrown/status/587044580618596352?s=19
tries to undermine it but was with him a lot at this time, about his new GF at time i believe
https://twitter.com/jamesjamesbrown/status/587044580618596352?s=19
- 52. | 16/04/2020
Why on the video is he already shaking his hands dry before he's even washed them?
- 53. | 26/04/2020
Could be that the Dynasty line is just word play on die nasty after a shed load of drink and drugs.
- 54. | 02/05/2020
Could be although he pronounces it the Brit way as "Dinnasty"....
- 55. | 21/10/2020
'I remember one year when I watched nothing but Dallas – it was great. JR: fantastic. Didn’t mind Dynasty either. Me and Elena like Neighbours as well; Doctor Carl, he’s great. I particularly liked that band he had at one stage. Good band: good TV.' Renegade, MES, 2009.
- 56. | 11/10/2021
Just want to say the American banging on about "it's about crystal meth" is being foolish.
Crystal meth does not exist in the UK. Especially not in any kind of scene. Crystal meth is an American concoction like crack and hasn't really ever made a significant leap to our shores.
I'm glad this song speaks to you and you find something in it
But it's not "about" that and no reading supports it unless you veer off into fantasy.
Crystal meth does not exist in the UK. Especially not in any kind of scene. Crystal meth is an American concoction like crack and hasn't really ever made a significant leap to our shores.
I'm glad this song speaks to you and you find something in it
But it's not "about" that and no reading supports it unless you veer off into fantasy.
- 57. | 17/10/2021
Comment #56.
It's not right to say it "doesn't exist", but its prevalence has generally been small scale. See for example:
Breaking Bad: Why doesn't the UK have a crystal meth problem? (2013)
and
Why People in the UK Don't Use Meth (2020)
I expect the stats for 1990 would show a similar story, but I don't feel it's necessary to dig them out!
It's not right to say it "doesn't exist", but its prevalence has generally been small scale. See for example:
Breaking Bad: Why doesn't the UK have a crystal meth problem? (2013)
and
Why People in the UK Don't Use Meth (2020)
I expect the stats for 1990 would show a similar story, but I don't feel it's necessary to dig them out!
- 58. | 07/06/2022
Whilst I reckon "Pasted" means he got wrecked in a bar rather than beaten up "I hope I got the number" could mean "I hope I got the kicking they wanted" as in "do a number" or "having the number put on you" https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/do-a-number-on-sb
- 59. | 10/06/2022
That would be a really weird way of saying that. Which doesn't mean it isn't a really weird way of saying that, but...
- 60. | 05/01/2023
Y'know, I think it might be writin' not riding school, seems more likely for MES' lady friend
- 61. | 13/01/2023
Well, except that dressing for riding school makes sense as an image whereas dressing for writing school doesn't seem to.
- 62. | 22/06/2023
The Virgin Prunes, a band that was associated with The Fall, did a song called "Dave-Id Is Dead" on their 1982 album "Pagan Lovesong."
- 63. | 03/11/2023
This is a schizo hole to go down, but I can't help but think this is a reference to the "Paul is Dead" conspiracy theory. A big part of it was that Paul got replaced by a guy named William Campbell or William Shepherd. There are a lot of sly references to the Beatles in Mark's lyrics and this might be, in a roundabout way, a reference to "Paul's" songs being simple love songs and "Bill's" songs being navel gazing psychedelia. Bill is Dead, and we're back to the love songs.
Probably not, but stuff like covering Beatle Bones n Smokin Stones and A Day In The Life and referencing the Beatles relatively often, it makes me wonder.
Probably not, but stuff like covering Beatle Bones n Smokin Stones and A Day In The Life and referencing the Beatles relatively often, it makes me wonder.
- 64. | 09/11/2023
dfd comment #63. Unconvinced, and I think there are better accounts of the song. But.... what other Beatles references do you think there are? Certainly there are a few arguable ones, but I don't think I recall anything direct (apart from the Beefheart cover and the A Day in the Life cover.
- 65. | 09/11/2023
Oh, Shoulder Pads of course.
"These are the greatest times of my life
These are the greatest times of my life
These are the greatest times of my life
These are the biggest times of my life
This is the greatest time of my life
These are the biggest times of my life
This is the greatest time of my life
These are the biggest times of my life
This is the finest time of my life
These are the greatest times of my life"