Various Times
Lyrics
Alright we're going to go back
to 1940
No money
And I live in Berlin
I think I'll join up
Become a camp guard
No war for me
An old Jew's face dripping red
I hate the prisoners
I hate the officers
They've no fight
I think I'll join,
The red rose, (2)
Leave Belsen
I'll go to Switzerland
Human [race]
Human [race]
Don't think, ask him
Human [race]
Human [race]
Don't think, ask him
Present :
I don't like them
said Ian (3)
in his black-out threat
I think I'll drop out
Become a No Man (4)
And live my rules
But I'm the sort that gets
out of the bath with a dirty face
Everyone I meet's the same now
No brains or thought
A good case for the systems we like - we get
Human [race]
Human [race]
Various times
Human [race]
Human [race]
Don't think, ask him
Future:
One nine 80
Black windows
And smokey holes
My head is full of lead
And the beer is so weak
Since they got rid of time around here
Dr. Doom (5)
Fresh from Salem
And the witch trials (6)
The Lathe of Heaven (7)
Time mistaken
Three places at once
Human [race]
Human [race]
Don't think, ask him
Human [race]
Human [race]
Don't think, ask him
Ask him
Ask him
Notes
1. Here is a bit of talk from MES. The interview is from 1989, from some sort of Dutch magazine:
Smith says he tried to be narrative in that song, to tell a story. "I remember being very proud of the lyric. It's very simple. Just before writing it, I had heard something from the Shangri-La's, _The Future, The Present, The Past_ or something like that, a horrible song [actually "Past, Present and Future]. (laughing) It made me write this." The song in question is called _Past, Present And Future_ and it isn't that bad really. It resembles _Various Times_ in that the singer announces each verse with "past", "present" and "future". Smith says "Right, we're gonna go back", "present" and "future", I think. I ask him about the chorus, is it "human race"? "Yes, it is. The structure of verse-chorus-verse was pretty unusual in those days. [for a new wave band, I suppose he means] We wanted the chorus to be a vocal noise, it wasn't intended to be understood."
To be honest, I don't think there was ever a period in the history of pop music when "verse-chorus-verse" was uncommon; it is possible that Smith is talking about the Fall rather than a general trend, but if so the remark is inaccurate. The Fall had released five songs at this point: "Psycho Mafia," "Bingo-Master," "Repetition," and the A-side of "Various Times," "It's The New Thing." "Repetition" does not have a chorus, but the other four all run verse-chorus-verse. There may have been some sort of micro-trend in "New Wave" that eschewed the structure, especially if we were to disqualify songs that start with the chorus, although this seems like niggling. But it's a pretty common way to write a song, and it has been for quite some time.
According to Smith, in a letter to Ian McColloch (quoted in note 3, and reproduced under More Information), he produced the whistling sound on a Peruvian nose flute (Dan).
2. Smith probably has the group of non-violent resistors to the Hitler regime in Nazi Germany known as the White Rose, as this quote Dan turned up would indicate:
In this July 1988 MES travelogue for the NME, he refers to "the Red Rose": "I asked this bloke why there were no historical things in Munich and he kindly showed me around. I asked him where the 1923 Putsch was and he pointed it out and then he took me for a drink in the place where the Red Rose [sic] was, that was the student underground against the Nazis - the same street where the Nazi party was formed strangely enough."
I initially thought of the Rosicrucians, whose symbology features a red rose upon a cross, upon hearing this lyric (the name is derived from rosae crucis, or "rose cross"). A purported secret society dedicated to the occult and the reformation of humanity, the legend of the Rosicrucians was originally inspired by two anonymous 17th-century manifestoes. Numerous occult societies have claimed to be the true Rosicrucians, right up to our own time. It seems likely Smith has just gotten the name mixed up, though.
3. According to Bagrec on the Fall online forum:
I used to know Julian [Cope] a bit back in the day, (clang!!) and he certainly believed ["Julian said how was the gear" in "Two Steps Back"] was about him- and that the "I don't like them, said Ian" in Various Times, refers to Ian McCulloch- [the singer from Echo and the Bunnymen]- who apparently used to do an impersonation of a racist character.
Both lines date from the days when Cope and McCulloch apparently used to roadie for The Fall....
This may of course be bollox.
From Cope's Head-On:
We played Manchester's Band on the Wall club on Mark Smith's 23rd birthday. It was strange to be
on stage with him in the audience. I still felt that I had loads to prove to him, especially as Mac had
got a name-check on the B-side of the new Fall single.
And, from a letter from MES to McCulloch:
"The song is about objectivity, really, old 'outsider' syndrome. The middle verse is from that chat we had in the van on the way back from Leeds Poly. It is no way derogatory to you. I wrote it 'cos I agreed. Sometimes though on stage I change that verse to insult Penman e.g. WROTE Ian ' + ' His black-out' etc. + nasty things about him!"
Ian Penman is a journalist who wrote for the NME. See More Information below for the text of the letter.
4. In the Odyssey, Odysseus tells the cyclops Polyphemus that his name is Outis (often given in English translations as Nemo, the Latin equivalent), which means "No Man." When Odysseus blinds Polyphemus, the punning name aids in his escape:
"Then in his turn from out the cave big Polyphemus answered: 'Friends, Nobody is murdering me by craft...' But answering him in winged words they said: 'If nobody harms you when you are left alone, illness which comes from mighty Zeus you cannot fly. But make your prayer to your father, lord Poseidon.'"
In the blue lyrics book, the capitalization is as I have it here, like a proper name; it seems likely MES had The Odyssey in mind here, as it is a famous passage. Furthermore, Outis has been used as a pseudonym in several well-known instances. See Wikipedia for more (thanks to Dan for this note).
5. Dr. Doom is a Marvel character-- a supervillain, inventor, sorceror, and leader of the fictional country "Latveria." Dannyno from the Fall Online forum points out this connection between Dr. Doom and the Salem witch trials:
"[The line] is a clear reference to this Marvel Spiderman storyline (1976), starting with issue 41:
Marvel Team-Up #41
in issue 44:
Marvel Team-Up #44 ."
Also Fall-notable, the cover of #43 proclaims "A Past Gone Mad!"
6. On the significance of witch trials to the Fall mythos, see K-punk, "Memorex for the Krakens."(K-punk)
7. The Lathe of Heaven is a science fiction novel by Ursula K. Le Guin about a man who changes reality every time he dreams.
Comments (38)
Why red, when the White Rose was the name of an actual anti-Nazi movement? Could MES be having a little joke here? A white rose is of course also a symbol of Yorkshire - cf the heraldic rose of the House of York. The red rose, on the other hand, is the heraldic symbol of the House of Lancaster, and so the red rose has become a symbol of Lancashire (see the Wars of the Roses). You can see that this might appeal to MES.
http://thefall.org/gigography/88jul30.html
"I asked this bloke why there were no historical things in Munich and he kindly showed me around. I asked him where the 1923 Putsch was and he pointed it out and then he took me for a drink in the place where the Red Rose was, that was the student underground against the Nazis - the same street where the Nazi party was formed strangely enough."
" The interview is apparently from 1989, and purports to be from Sounds:"
No, I think you've misread the link. The interview seems to have been for a Dutch magazine. The piece at the link merely begins with a quote from a Sounds article.
This "no man" concept - could it be linked to the pseudonymical "Outis"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outis
Goes back to Odysseus, see also Joyce's Ulysses. But, with Nemo, used to disguise identity by artists etc. Possibly fits in the context.
"Everyone I meet's the same now, No brains or thought"
but I'm almost certain it's actually:
"Everyone, I mean to say now, no brains or thought." It's very clear to my ears.
I'm so ooooold I bought this single in 1978! Excellent site - I've bookmarked to come back to.
Chris, good one...
We played Manchester's Band on the Wall club on Mark Smith's 23rd birthday. It was strange to be
on stage with him in the audience. I still felt that I had loads to prove to him, especially as Mac had
got a name-check on the B-side of the new Fall single.
I am yet to find documentation of a Teardrop Explodes gig at Band on the Wall on that date. It would be good to find it.
#41:
#42:
#43:
#44:
#45:
For more info see the Marvel wiki pages starting here: https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Marvel_Team-Up_Vol_1_41
https://x-men.fandom.com/wiki/Scarlet_Witch
and for a list of "manifestations" of this power in the Marvel canon see: https://uncannyxmen.net/characters/scarlet-witch/page/0/12
The Leeds Poly bit would be the gig of 20th June. Penman is of course the music journalist Ian Penman.
Re: "Everyone I meet's the same now"
The blue lyrics book has this as "Every One-Eye thinks the same now".
I don't hear "thinks" at all but "One-Eye" looks (no pun intended!) pretty conclusive proof of the cyclops theory.
Fantastic website by the way - I loved The Fall back in the early 80s but rarely had a clue what they were on about so this is an absolute treasure trove of info.
Design by Gustaf.
Is it just me?
I listened to it again the other day and it could even be "Every one-eye I meets the same now ..." but hard to be sure because of MES' habit at that time, especially live, to stretch out his some of his words with "ah" at the start/end.
But always worth exploring different hearings of course.
"What we're gonna do right here is go back, way back, back into time"
I don't like them
Said Ian
In his black out threads
Threads being clothes.
Always one of my favourite Fall songs, heard on John Peel back in the day, probably my first Fall 7".
Amazing site, so much to read and learn.
Become a no-man"
Perhaps this is related to Albert Camus' "The Fall" - it's the basic perspective of the narrator, and the general tone of the lyric reminds me somehow of the book.
"This is a story about the present time
The present time as you watch it now.."
"Slow Down Ronnie" by Von Sudenfed
It was reviewed by Mick Middles for Sounds, 24 March 1979:
And also by Andy Zero for the April 1979 issue of City Fun:
Tracks from the gig have been released on the Culture Bunker 7LP box set:
[url]https://www.bravado.de/p51-i0602438944903/the-teardrop-explodes/the-culture-bunker/index.html[/ulr]