Barmy
Lyrics
Out of England, I dream of its creamery (2)
When I'm there I dwell on Saxony. (3)
In Turkey, not been due to World War I
Istanbul is the place 'cos of my birthday. (4)
I am barmy
Bleedin' barmy
I got everything
I got everything I want except for hungry (5)
I got everything I want except for money.
I've got the best round set aside for parties
They'll have one when I've gone
In fact, they said so, great one!
I am barmy
Bleedin' barmy
Friends disintegrate within circles of hash
Residue after years of fab genius
Is a pension for the jews (6)
And a medal from the company which I wiped my butt on (7)
And hung on a laburnum tree. (8)
I am barmy
Bleedin' barmy
I am barmy
Bleedin' barmy
Just call me the first
Just call me the first
One May, 1803
On the slopes on Gascony (9)
I am barmy, bleedin' barmy
A dramatic verse
A dramatic verse
A dramatic verse
The programs lot
We break into tune
Take and bring a word
Ring a buzzer
Take and bring a word (10)
A dramatic verse
Notes
1. From Reformation:
The riff is based on "Valleri" by the Monkees. If you listen to Valleri you can see a sort of connection with a horn riff which appears half way through the song. This was confirmed by an interview MES had with Edwin Pouncey in Sounds (28 September 1985): "I pinched it from Valleri...It came out well, that song, better than I thought. What we did was, we used all the 70s effects. Wah-Wah and all that. Wah-Wah pedals are great, when I play the guitar with them it sounds great, whatever you play...I typed out Barmy like it was a big deal; there are a lot more lines than I actually used, a lot more choruses. When we recorded it I was really sick, dead ill, I was on antibiotics. I had a really bad chest infection from smoking and not eating properly and it looked like I was going to go into hospital. When we did 'Barmy' you could hear it in my voice, this rattle of phlegm. But it sounds good, it sounds better than if I'd done it straight."
Dan:
I think there's a clue to be found in the first world war soldier's song which has the refrain, "I or we] must have been bloody well barmy!"
There are lots of variations to be found. Here's a typical example:
"Why did we join the army boys?
Why did we join the army?
Why did we come to France to fight?
We must have been bloody well barmy!"
2. This may be an instance of MES substituting a word for another with a similar sound (or "clanging"), as we would expect to hear "greenery" here. However, the lyric as it stands is not incoherent; "cream" is often used both to denote excellence, as cream is what rises to the top, and a kind of rich and luxuriant goodness.
3. Saxony is a state of Germany, and contains Dresden and Leipzig. It is named after its early inhabitants the Saxons, a group of German tribes that merged with the Angles, another Germanic people, and conquered the land that is now Great Britain, founding the Kingdom of England in the 10th century.
4. MES was born on March 5th, 1957. It's not clear, of course, that the narrator is meant to be MES, or to have the same birthday. I have not found any particular significance for this date with relation to Istanbul. There is a movie called Istanbul that was released in 1957 (on January 23rd). Of course, it could be the other way round, and Istabul could be significant with relation to the narrator's birthday...
5. Or maybe "Hungary," but it doesn't sound like it. There are good arguments either way (see the comments below), and we may never know which word is correct.
6. "A pension for the jews" may refer to the many survivors of the Shoah who were granted life-long pensions from the Germans by the Conference on Jewish Material Claims Against Germany after World War II, which was established in 1951 by members of the World Jewish Congress at the behest of the Israeli government.
Dan points out that "pension" can also mean a guest house, and also submits the following:
Alfred C. Mierzejewski, Alfred C. (2017). Taking from the Weak, Giving to the Strong: The Jews and the German Statutory Pension System, 1933−1945, in Holocaust and Genocide Studies, Vol. 31 (2), Fall 2017, pp.193–214. https://doi.org/10.1093/hgs/dcx040:
Nazi pension policy toward the Jews developed in three phases, conforming roughly to the overall evolution of Nazi anti-Jewish discrimination. First, until the end of 1934 the authorities took no action against Jews’ statutory pensions. Second, beginning in early 1935 those Jews who left Germany effectively lost their pension rights as a result of foreign exchange regulations dating to the Weimar Republic. Finally, beginning in 1941 Jews who were deported suffered con?scation of their pension assets. Remarkably, Jews who continued to live lawfully in Germany received bene?ts right up to the collapse of the Third
Reich; the government, however, used various legal devices to whittle away even at these.
7. Dan points out that "company" can mean a military unit, or a business organisation, or the CIA. It might mean something like the East India Company.
"The Company" is a nickname for the CIA which is sometimes used by its agents, although they more commonly employ the metonym "Langley," but it's just the sort of faux-insiderish jargon that might be used in a song like this one, which hints mysteriously at historical situations in a somewhat humorous manner. The nickname "The Company" may itself be derived from the East India Company as the CIA was a sort of successor to the former as an organization that has its hand in all sorts of international affairs in a clandestine or semi-clandestine manner.
This may be a clue that the narrative voice of the song is not to be too closely identified with Mark E. Smith, although such determinations are usually fluid in any Fall song. The British Empire (along with the Allies or Entente Powers) fought against the armies of the Ottoman Empire (who were aligned with the Central Powers) on Turkish soil in World War I; the Allies were victorious, although Turkey gained independence in 1923. Mark E. Smith was born on March 5, 1957, a date which has, and the components of which have, no particular significance in relation to Istanbul, although the movie Istanbul, which starred Errol Flynn as a diamond smuggler, was released in 1957. Here and in general, it is important to remind ourselves that the narrator has declared himself barmy, although when avoidalble it mustn't be used as a cop-out.
8. According to Harley, "Laburnum trees are also known as 'golden chain' trees, have lots of hanging yellow flowers, and would be good places to hide medals." Laburnum trees are deciduous trees, native to continental Europe, with poisonous pods.
9. Thanks to commenters Fit and Working Again and Portsmouth Bubblejet for deciphering this lyric. Gascony is a region in France known for white wine. According to Dan, "In May 1803 Napoleon was planning for war with Britain. On 1st May 1803, he was at Château de Saint-Cloud (there's a letter from Bonaparte to Talleyrand dated this day)."
From Portsmouth Bubblejet:
The Gascony reference also ties in with the fact that May 1803 is the formal start of the Napoleonic Wars. Britain ended the Treaty of Amiens and declared war on France on 18 May 1803 due to concerns about Napoléon's expansionist policies, particularly as regards Switzerland. This fits in with the mindset of the narrator in the first verse of "Barmy": "I got everything I want except for Hungary" (see note 5 above).
10. 'Take' and 'bring' are words with opposite meanings, and are often confused with one another by beginning speakers of English. The song at this point seems to have succumbed to barminess, and the narrator is perhaps in a sense regressing in his ability to make sense in his native language.
More Information
Comments (96)
- 1. | 07/05/2013
- 2. | 13/07/2013
"Creamery"
A creamery is where butter is made.
A creamery is where butter is made.
- 3. | 06/05/2014
I always thought the opening line was "Out of England, I dream of extreme worry" - this would tie in both with Smith's repeated statements that leaving England made him feel anxious and ill and with the title of the song.
- 4. | 13/05/2014
Could be, but I still hear "it's creamery."
- 5. | 25/05/2014
Ads for "This Nation's Saving Grace" used the phrase "phlegm cough rattle", I think. Probably refers to this song.
- 6. | 23/08/2014
"I got everything I want except for hungry"
Hungary? That's what I'm thinking.
Dan
Hungary? That's what I'm thinking.
Dan
- 7. | 09/04/2015
Is it a spoiler, or know to all British folks, that Barmy means B-army = British Army? If this is new to you, maybe should forget it, because the lyrics describe B-ritish -Army history, as was also visible in earlier comments and notes.
This birthday I think means a spiritual fact, that MES can not know, so I am not sure why he would choose to put that line in. Istanbul refers to the conception of the historical Reformation, because that is where Erasmus from Rotterdam would get his Bible from, that was later than translated by William Tyndale, and inspired queen Elisabeth of Tudor, as later Bibles would create Oliver Cromwell. But this may be off topic, because the British Army referred to in this song is the Commonwealth army, that has secret alliances to the whore of Revelation, the romanist antichrist.
This may get to complicated for you British...
At any case, the song may look like British Army in the 20th century, but the words "Bleedin' Barmy" refers to the red coats, the way that Barmy was dressed during the American civil war. Saxony refers to very old British heritage, so again, the spiritual meaning of the lyric is so wide and well understood by MES, that I see an army of Angels whispering song texts in his pen.
However, my estimation is, that he deliberately hides the real meaning of Barmy, in order to write a strong lyric, using a little historical reality, than puts codes on key's to the story.
An innocent rape.
He can't get away with this when I read it though!
I've made poems that way myself, hiding the reality that is the skeleton for factual connection in the consciousness of the beholder, while the song itself becomes a creature itself. The trick was merely a help, like a mold for concrete pouring, but not the end product.
The meaning is not literal by the way.
The text is the text as it is.
But is made that way I suppose as I said, and opens reality that MES himself does not know. Red Coats are not Ironsides, and Ironsides is NOT what is described here, while "Barmy" may just as well mean British manhood in general in a certain interpretation around consciousness of a population.
MES may want to read my comment here, because Ironsides is what we want from Reformation and the New Puritan, while Red Coats must be dismantled.
The latter is not easy.
Yes, I am serious.
This birthday I think means a spiritual fact, that MES can not know, so I am not sure why he would choose to put that line in. Istanbul refers to the conception of the historical Reformation, because that is where Erasmus from Rotterdam would get his Bible from, that was later than translated by William Tyndale, and inspired queen Elisabeth of Tudor, as later Bibles would create Oliver Cromwell. But this may be off topic, because the British Army referred to in this song is the Commonwealth army, that has secret alliances to the whore of Revelation, the romanist antichrist.
This may get to complicated for you British...
At any case, the song may look like British Army in the 20th century, but the words "Bleedin' Barmy" refers to the red coats, the way that Barmy was dressed during the American civil war. Saxony refers to very old British heritage, so again, the spiritual meaning of the lyric is so wide and well understood by MES, that I see an army of Angels whispering song texts in his pen.
However, my estimation is, that he deliberately hides the real meaning of Barmy, in order to write a strong lyric, using a little historical reality, than puts codes on key's to the story.
An innocent rape.
He can't get away with this when I read it though!
I've made poems that way myself, hiding the reality that is the skeleton for factual connection in the consciousness of the beholder, while the song itself becomes a creature itself. The trick was merely a help, like a mold for concrete pouring, but not the end product.
The meaning is not literal by the way.
The text is the text as it is.
But is made that way I suppose as I said, and opens reality that MES himself does not know. Red Coats are not Ironsides, and Ironsides is NOT what is described here, while "Barmy" may just as well mean British manhood in general in a certain interpretation around consciousness of a population.
MES may want to read my comment here, because Ironsides is what we want from Reformation and the New Puritan, while Red Coats must be dismantled.
The latter is not easy.
Yes, I am serious.
- 8. | 10/04/2017
"In Turkey when I've been due to World War I
Istanbul is the place 'cos of my birthday."
The feel here is that the narrative of the song is set in a time quite close to World War 1. Istanbul only became widely used outside of Turkey after about 1928.
Researching possible historical candidates, one name I've come across is Richard Meinertzhagen (revealed as a confabulator). There are certain echoes, but nothing specific enough yet to pin him down as a favourite. So it's on to the next one.
However, we shouldn't exclude the possibility that MES is the narrator - he might have visited Turkey due to his (family-related) interest in the war.
Istanbul is the place 'cos of my birthday."
The feel here is that the narrative of the song is set in a time quite close to World War 1. Istanbul only became widely used outside of Turkey after about 1928.
Researching possible historical candidates, one name I've come across is Richard Meinertzhagen (revealed as a confabulator). There are certain echoes, but nothing specific enough yet to pin him down as a favourite. So it's on to the next one.
However, we shouldn't exclude the possibility that MES is the narrator - he might have visited Turkey due to his (family-related) interest in the war.
- 9. | 10/04/2017
Laburnum trees are sometimes said to be the tree that Judas hung himself on.
- 10. | 06/05/2017
Dan, I've often thought "Hungary"--I think we have discussed it on the FOF--and there seems to me to be much going on in these lyrics I can't pin down, I think you're absolutely right that Europe and WWI could be seen as important clues here. I want to change the spelling to Hungary, is there any positive reason to prefer the ungrammatical and nonsensical "hungry"?
- 11. | 06/05/2017
Dan, I need a reference. Judas for Laburnum would be huge (relatively!) but I cannot find any confirmation. Judas trees are said to be Cercis siliquastrum (European Redbud) and can be extended to the other Cercis trees, but Laburnum is not a Cercis. At least, that's all I've been able to discover.
- 12. | 06/05/2017
The closest thing to a connection I can find:
The chain-flowered redbud (Cercis racemosa) from western China is unusual in the genus in having its flowers in pendulous 10 cm (4 in) racemes, as in a Laburnum, rather than short clusters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cercis
At best, this could suggest that Laburnum is sometimes mistaken for a Judas tree, and even in this case for one of the Judas-by-extension trees...
The chain-flowered redbud (Cercis racemosa) from western China is unusual in the genus in having its flowers in pendulous 10 cm (4 in) racemes, as in a Laburnum, rather than short clusters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cercis
At best, this could suggest that Laburnum is sometimes mistaken for a Judas tree, and even in this case for one of the Judas-by-extension trees...
- 13. | 06/05/2017
Comment #12.
I went back to the book where I read it, or thought I had, and clearly I completely misunderstood what it was telling me!
Doh!
I went back to the book where I read it, or thought I had, and clearly I completely misunderstood what it was telling me!
Doh!
- 14. | 07/05/2017
Perhaps worth pointing out that Laburnum trees are also known as 'golden chain' trees, have lots of hanging yellow flowers, and would be good places to hide medals.
- 15. | 25/07/2017
and a medal from the company
Just to pick at this a bit. "Company" could mean a military unit, or a business organisation, or the CIA. It might mean something like the East India Company.
- 16. | 25/07/2017
In the sleevenotes to This Nation's Saving Grace is a page of credits, which begins with a list of people titled "FOR: TA" - i.e. acknowledgements, dedications, thanks, that kind of thing.
The last name on that list is Paul Nash. Well, there could be other Paul Nashes, but a significant one is the artist Paul Nash (1889-1946) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Nash_(artist), who served during the first world war and painted some remarkable images of battlefields.
One of his paintings is entitled Mansions of the Dead, which makes me wonder about the instrumental first track on the album: Mansion.
Now, I wouldn't say there are any obvious correspondences between the life of Nash and this song, beyond the first world war theme. But the acknowledgements in the credits does make me wonder if there is something of Nash in this song.
The last name on that list is Paul Nash. Well, there could be other Paul Nashes, but a significant one is the artist Paul Nash (1889-1946) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Nash_(artist), who served during the first world war and painted some remarkable images of battlefields.
One of his paintings is entitled Mansions of the Dead, which makes me wonder about the instrumental first track on the album: Mansion.
Now, I wouldn't say there are any obvious correspondences between the life of Nash and this song, beyond the first world war theme. But the acknowledgements in the credits does make me wonder if there is something of Nash in this song.
- 17. | 29/07/2017
Yes, quite right, that should be mentioned.
- 18. | 29/07/2017
I meant that about "Company," I hadn't noticed the next one which I'm about to read.
- 19. | 29/07/2017
Re: Nash: this song is very slippery for me, I always feel like there's something going on just beneath the surface I can't quite glimpse.
I'm not sure I did the right thing with "Hungary."
I'm not sure I did the right thing with "Hungary."
- 20. | 18/01/2018
I think MES has probably substituted 'creamery' for 'greenary' - England's green and pleasant land etc... There's nothing wrong with 'creamery' and it works fine, but the one thing you really notice if you come back from the Mediterranean is how green everything is.
- 21. | 28/01/2018
It almost sounds like Mark is alternating the phrases "a dramatic verse, and automatic verse."
- 22. | 29/01/2018
Re laburnum: is the point that it is poisonous? From somewhere on the web:
"The signs of lupine [a related tree] poisoning can develop within an hour or may take as long as a day. The signs are related to the nervous system and resemble the signs seen with excessive consumption of nicotine (tobacco): twitching, nervousness, depression, difficulty in moving and breathing, and loss of muscular control. If large quantities were consumed, convulsions, coma, and death by respiratory paralysis may occur. [..] There is no antidote"
Other sources say the reputation is not deserved. But it nevertheless has this reputation.
Likely a coincidence, but, in line with the military references in the song, the government in WWI attempted to use its chemical simarity to nicotine to create synthetic nicotine for the troops.
"The signs of lupine [a related tree] poisoning can develop within an hour or may take as long as a day. The signs are related to the nervous system and resemble the signs seen with excessive consumption of nicotine (tobacco): twitching, nervousness, depression, difficulty in moving and breathing, and loss of muscular control. If large quantities were consumed, convulsions, coma, and death by respiratory paralysis may occur. [..] There is no antidote"
Other sources say the reputation is not deserved. But it nevertheless has this reputation.
Likely a coincidence, but, in line with the military references in the song, the government in WWI attempted to use its chemical simarity to nicotine to create synthetic nicotine for the troops.
- 23. | 29/01/2018
Re "Hungary".. Surely this is just an odd way of pronouncing "hungry", to match the lack of money in the next line
I have always heard "just comic verse", to match "dramatic verse", but maybe "call me the first is right.
I have always heard "just comic verse", to match "dramatic verse", but maybe "call me the first is right.
- 24. | 31/01/2018
Agree with the above. They are an honest couple of sentences, as they reflect his circumstance and lifestyle. Smith has little money, for obvious reasons. He also has no hunger, given his use of amphetamine. Stimulants rob users of their appetite, and Smith is hungry because of that.
He just chooses to use the word 'hungry' instead of 'hunger'. I think it's funny. In both lyrics he's bemoaning the absence of hunger and money, both of which might contribute to him being barmy. MES has never desired the ownership of Hungary, which the current lyric is suggesting. It's just another of his speed references.
He just chooses to use the word 'hungry' instead of 'hunger'. I think it's funny. In both lyrics he's bemoaning the absence of hunger and money, both of which might contribute to him being barmy. MES has never desired the ownership of Hungary, which the current lyric is suggesting. It's just another of his speed references.
- 25. | 01/02/2018
Comment #22. Laburnum is poisonous, but I think there is more work to do to understand the meaning of the image of throwing a military award into one.
Comment #23: Could be. But the line is
Now, either "except for Hungary" means he hasn't got "Hungary/Hungry" or it means he has got it, but doesn't want it. There's a geopolitical theme in the song, which is why I like reading it as referring to the country.
Comment #24: what makes us think that the "I" in the song is MES? It could be, and I've tried over the years to find those connections, but it's not at all clear.
Comment #23: Could be. But the line is
I got everything I want except for Hungary
I got everything I want except for money
Now, either "except for Hungary" means he hasn't got "Hungary/Hungry" or it means he has got it, but doesn't want it. There's a geopolitical theme in the song, which is why I like reading it as referring to the country.
Comment #24: what makes us think that the "I" in the song is MES? It could be, and I've tried over the years to find those connections, but it's not at all clear.
- 26. | 05/02/2018
Leaving the song aside for a moment, I think we can agree on a few things about Smith. First, he was a bit of a nutter. Examples abound. Second, The Fall were never a money-spinner when compared to other groups, much to his consternation. Third, he had a taste for speed, and for referencing it in song. It's not a stretch to think all aspects were condensed into a first-person lyric intended to be taken literally. That's what I do. Or you can go on, with the greatest respect, over-analysing it, which is what you do.
I reckon the lyrics in question, when taken on their own, describe all too well features of Smith himself and which impact on the fortunes of The Fall. It is him who is barmy, at least in the context of that particular verse. It's entirely self-referential, and gives overt connections you have no need to look beyond. Even if he's describing a hundred other things, he's still describing his own character and image (being barmy, relatively skint and hungry), and one of the causes of each (amphetamine abuse removing his appetite and leading to extreme behaviour, resulting in his difficult reputation in the eyes of the music industry and the subsequent lack of money this entails).
I reckon the lyrics in question, when taken on their own, describe all too well features of Smith himself and which impact on the fortunes of The Fall. It is him who is barmy, at least in the context of that particular verse. It's entirely self-referential, and gives overt connections you have no need to look beyond. Even if he's describing a hundred other things, he's still describing his own character and image (being barmy, relatively skint and hungry), and one of the causes of each (amphetamine abuse removing his appetite and leading to extreme behaviour, resulting in his difficult reputation in the eyes of the music industry and the subsequent lack of money this entails).
- 27. | 06/02/2018
Oh, you're one of those. Had these arguments a million times on the FOF. You can interpret it as about MES if you like. You might even be right, in the sense of what MES' intentions were. I think you can make that reading stand up - but I think at the expense of completely ignoring the various elements of the song. If interpretation ends up closing off avenues of investigation, it's just an obstacle.
But then, any song can be interpreted any number of ways, including literally. But the thing about interpretation is - so what? Curiosity is not extinguished. We still have a text, and the text is worth reading to see what's there.
We're interested in different things.
Once you've told somebody what a text is - in the mind of the author - "about", that does not constrain meanings others may derive from it), and nor does it tell you anything about how that text was constructed. That's what I'm interested in - where do all these words come from? What associations do they have? How do they speak to us?
You can call that "over-analysis" if you like - I don't care. To me, it's just analysis. You're going to have to put up with it.
But then, any song can be interpreted any number of ways, including literally. But the thing about interpretation is - so what? Curiosity is not extinguished. We still have a text, and the text is worth reading to see what's there.
We're interested in different things.
Once you've told somebody what a text is - in the mind of the author - "about", that does not constrain meanings others may derive from it), and nor does it tell you anything about how that text was constructed. That's what I'm interested in - where do all these words come from? What associations do they have? How do they speak to us?
You can call that "over-analysis" if you like - I don't care. To me, it's just analysis. You're going to have to put up with it.
- 28. | 06/02/2018
Ha, I'm on the FoF, but under a different name, so perfectly accustomed to putting up with you. Your being curious isn't a criticism as far as I'm concerned, but I do find your degree of analysis borderline neurotic. It's also interesting and valuable though. I'm happy with my interpretation of the segment under discussion, and not bothered how it relates to the rest of the song. It's actually in my top dozen favourite Fall tracks, and I've not bothered to work out what the other 11 are either.
Closing arguments from me. In My New House from the same album, is he going on about his own recent move or that of someone else? I'm going with the former, as I've read somewhere that him and Brix did move during the time of TNSG. Is Paintwork then a development of that song in terms of Smith's own reality, or that of another character? Again I opt for the former, as there's a concrete sequence from moving house and then tinkering with the decoration, and one Smith could make come to life in a pair of original songs focusing on the mundane.
That's what some of TNSG is for me - a celebration of the mundane, and Smith's place in life at that time. In Barmy, he looks at his ordinary existence, and finds plenty in it to write about, but it need not be what the entire song addresses. That's where I draw the line, but I wouldn't dismiss other interpretations or the gathering of details which support or overturn my understating of it. I just won't be the person that goes as far as some do.
Closing arguments from me. In My New House from the same album, is he going on about his own recent move or that of someone else? I'm going with the former, as I've read somewhere that him and Brix did move during the time of TNSG. Is Paintwork then a development of that song in terms of Smith's own reality, or that of another character? Again I opt for the former, as there's a concrete sequence from moving house and then tinkering with the decoration, and one Smith could make come to life in a pair of original songs focusing on the mundane.
That's what some of TNSG is for me - a celebration of the mundane, and Smith's place in life at that time. In Barmy, he looks at his ordinary existence, and finds plenty in it to write about, but it need not be what the entire song addresses. That's where I draw the line, but I wouldn't dismiss other interpretations or the gathering of details which support or overturn my understating of it. I just won't be the person that goes as far as some do.
- 29. | 06/02/2018
Comment #28
Imagine how it is for me.
Definitive ArticleYour being curious isn't a criticism as far as I'm concerned, but I do find your degree of analysis borderline neurotic.
Imagine how it is for me.
- 30. | 10/02/2018
Huh, I had Harley's laburnum comment in the wrong note. This one still is tantalizing as I don't think any of us know what's going on but it seems like something is. I now will read your recent comments and I hope find out you've cracked it....
- 31. | 10/02/2018
It almost sounds like Mark is alternating the phrases "a dramatic verse, and automatic verse."
It all sounds enough like "a dramatic" that I don't feel confident enough to change it to "automatic"...
It all sounds enough like "a dramatic" that I don't feel confident enough to change it to "automatic"...
- 32. | 10/02/2018
Why would lack of money prevent someone from being hungry?
- 33. | 10/02/2018
Dan: "Now, either 'except for Hungary' means he hasn't got 'Hungary/Hungry' or it means he has got it, but doesn't want it."
Bzfgt: Yeah it never occurred to me but it could mean "Except for [I'm] hungry." And the idea that he's not hungry due to speed also never occurred to me, that's an intriguing possibility. If you do that, you will not be hungry at all, ever (except upon coming down).
On the other hand:
Dan: "There's a geopolitical theme in the song, which is why I like reading it as referring to the country."
Bzfgt: I have always thought this and used to think I was a lone voice because we didn't have anything. So something that confirms what I always suspected will of course seem likely to me. As of now I still lean "Hungary" but to the extent "hungry" is made sense of, it becomes more appealing, and the maddening thing is there's probably no chance we'll ever know for sure.
Bzfgt: Yeah it never occurred to me but it could mean "Except for [I'm] hungry." And the idea that he's not hungry due to speed also never occurred to me, that's an intriguing possibility. If you do that, you will not be hungry at all, ever (except upon coming down).
On the other hand:
Dan: "There's a geopolitical theme in the song, which is why I like reading it as referring to the country."
Bzfgt: I have always thought this and used to think I was a lone voice because we didn't have anything. So something that confirms what I always suspected will of course seem likely to me. As of now I still lean "Hungary" but to the extent "hungry" is made sense of, it becomes more appealing, and the maddening thing is there's probably no chance we'll ever know for sure.
- 34. | 10/02/2018
And even more maddening is it's likely we're canonizing whichever one we choose. So "Hungary" needs a "hungry" note, ay least, and if we ever flip back to "hungry" it'll need a "Hungary" note.
- 35. | 10/02/2018
Wow the notes somehow got all out of order. I shouldn't have opened this page just now!
- 36. | 10/02/2018
PTSN, did the govt use laburnum or lupine?
- 37. | 10/02/2018
"That's what some of TNSG is for me - a celebration of the mundane, and Smith's place in life at that time. In Barmy, he looks at his ordinary existence, and finds plenty in it to write about, but it need not be what the entire song addresses. That's where I draw the line, but I wouldn't dismiss other interpretations or the gathering of details which support or overturn my understating of it. I just won't be the person that goes as far as some do."
This is entirely reasonable. And your statement that "it need not be what the entire song addresses" is on the money. A song could be inspired by his moving house, for instance, and wind up doing a lot more. And there's no law that says you can't be satisfied to stop with the former.
This is entirely reasonable. And your statement that "it need not be what the entire song addresses" is on the money. A song could be inspired by his moving house, for instance, and wind up doing a lot more. And there's no law that says you can't be satisfied to stop with the former.
- 38. | 10/02/2018
The closest thing I've found to an Istanbul/birthday clue is this movie, which was released in...dum dum dum dum...1957! Weak beer, I know. Someone should watch it one of these days...
All the notes are at least in order, now.
All the notes are at least in order, now.
- 39. | 11/02/2018
Oops, forgot the link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istanbul_(film)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istanbul_(film)
- 40. | 06/05/2018
Some minor lyrical variation from the alternative version on the TNSG boxset;
"I've got the best land set aside for parties" - (I think the LP version is "best ground")
"Funds disintegrate within circles of glass residue" (LP - friends as above but both glass and cash on the double tracked vocal)
And on the LP I hear "I lay waiting hopefully" as "on May 18 oh 3"
"I've got the best land set aside for parties" - (I think the LP version is "best ground")
"Funds disintegrate within circles of glass residue" (LP - friends as above but both glass and cash on the double tracked vocal)
And on the LP I hear "I lay waiting hopefully" as "on May 18 oh 3"
- 41. | 06/05/2018
Cross ref with live version; "just call me the first of May 1803" - so meaning call me on the first of May 1803 perhaps? Something to do with Napoleon?
- 42. | 13/05/2018
Interesting. In May 1803 Napoleon was planning for war with Britain. On 1st May 1803, he was at Château de Saint-Cloud (there's a letter from Bonaparte to Talleyrand dated this day).
- 43. | 04/07/2018
Yeah I hear "--sh" after "circles of" almost could be "circles of hash" but I'll take your word on the double track
- 44. | 04/07/2018
OK yeah May 1803 "On sloped grass green" seems doubtful too, anyone got anything?
- 45. | 05/07/2018
Listening again, some friendly suggestions
"In Turkey, I've not been due to World War One"
"I've got the best land set aside for parties
And I'll have one when I'm gone
In fact, they said so, Great One.
"In Turkey, I've not been due to World War One"
"I've got the best land set aside for parties
And I'll have one when I'm gone
In fact, they said so, Great One.
- 46. | 08/07/2018
The Clitheroe Castle live version of 'Barmy' makes it clear that Smith is singing 'on the slopes of Gascony' and not 'on sloped grass green'.
- 47. | 11/07/2018
"In fact, they said so, good one." and re: comment #45
Newcastle Riverside, 12 June 1986 - sounds like "Great One" there too.
Newcastle Riverside, 12 June 1986 - sounds like "Great One" there too.
- 48. | 11/07/2018
I hear "Great One" on the album version now. Makes more sense, really, too.
And are we completely sure it's "creamery"? Because I've started hearing "Queen Marie", unhelpfully.
And are we completely sure it's "creamery"? Because I've started hearing "Queen Marie", unhelpfully.
- 49. | 11/07/2018
Portsmouth Bubblejet, comment #46. Breakthrough! It is indeed "slopes of Gascony". Can hear it on the Clitheroe Castle recording, and now on the album version.
- 50. | 11/07/2018
The "Ryazan barmy", a necklace worn by Russian princes:
https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc36436/
https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc36436/
- 51. | 11/07/2018
Associations:
Slopes of Gascony = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%B4tes_de_Gascogne
Also the novel Seven Men of Gascony by Ronald Delderfield (1975), set in the Napoleonic wars.
Slopes of Gascony = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%B4tes_de_Gascogne
Also the novel Seven Men of Gascony by Ronald Delderfield (1975), set in the Napoleonic wars.
- 52. | 11/07/2018
"I've got the best round set aside for parties"
Now sounds to me like
"I've got the best wines set aside for parties"
Now sounds to me like
"I've got the best wines set aside for parties"
- 53. | 11/07/2018
"Friends disintegrate within circles of cash
Residue after years of fab genius
Is a pension for the jews
and a medal from the company which I wiped my butt on
and hung on a laburnum tree."
On the TNSG omnibus edition, it sounds like "and a model for the company.." on the standard version.
But on the "Rough Mix", I hear some further differences.
Doesn't sound like "friends" disintegrate, it sounds like "funds" do. Sounds like it's "circles of glass". Sounds like a "medal for the company." The more obvious difference is "ass" instead of butt.
Residue after years of fab genius
Is a pension for the jews
and a medal from the company which I wiped my butt on
and hung on a laburnum tree."
On the TNSG omnibus edition, it sounds like "and a model for the company.." on the standard version.
But on the "Rough Mix", I hear some further differences.
Doesn't sound like "friends" disintegrate, it sounds like "funds" do. Sounds like it's "circles of glass". Sounds like a "medal for the company." The more obvious difference is "ass" instead of butt.
- 54. | 11/07/2018
re above, some confirmation for comment #40.
- 55. | 11/07/2018
"Circles of glass", if that's what they are, could be roundels.
- 56. | 12/07/2018
"Pension for the Jews" may not be referring to a retirement fund, but to a guest house.
- 57. | 13/07/2018
The Gascony reference also ties in with the fact that May 1803 is the formal start of the Napoleonic Wars (see note 9). Britain ended the Treaty of Amiens and declared war on France on 18 May 1803 due to concerns about Napoléon's expansionist policies, particularly as regards Switzerland. This fits in with the mindset of the narrator in the first verse of 'Barmy': 'I got everything I want except for Hungary'.
Given Smith's interest in Napoléon ('I love you all, but I cannot embrace you all' etc.), might this be a partial explanation for some elements of the song?
Given Smith's interest in Napoléon ('I love you all, but I cannot embrace you all' etc.), might this be a partial explanation for some elements of the song?
- 58. | 13/07/2018
See my comment #42 and elsewhere. Yes, I agree that bits of the song smell Napoleony.
- 59. | 22/07/2018
I just hear "In Turkey, not been...." with no "I've" at all, in fact
Sounds more like "round" to me still, definitely not "wines"
I've/they've almost impossible to tell the difference
He very much seems to be saying "hungry," not Hungary
Sounds more like "round" to me still, definitely not "wines"
I've/they've almost impossible to tell the difference
He very much seems to be saying "hungry," not Hungary
- 60. | 22/07/2018
Yep, I've gone back to "hungry" because that's how it's pronounced. Could be "Hung'ry" I suppose.
- 61. | 22/07/2018
Thank you, Portsmouth Bubblejet!
- 62. | 22/07/2018
I like "good one!" better like he's patronizing them about a joke, but I can hear "great" now
I'm pretty certain now it's "circles of hash" but I see I'm the only one who's suggested it which makes me nervous. Changing it at least for now though.
I'm pretty certain now it's "circles of hash" but I see I'm the only one who's suggested it which makes me nervous. Changing it at least for now though.
- 63. | 22/07/2018
It's "on the slopes on Gascony" by the way
- 64. | 22/07/2018
Damn I changed "Hungary" back just as it was experiencing a resurgence. But I cannot hear him say that, I now don't think.
- 65. | 22/07/2018
I'm still not sure it isn't "good one" on TNSG
- 66. | 22/07/2018
On TNSG it seems clearly "friends" to me, not "funds"
- 67. | 22/07/2018
I;m very furstrated with this "barmy collar"--I cannot find any documentation about it or explanation of the name, and the information is so thin I can't even tell if it's a barmy collar--i.e. this is the name of a type of object--or the barmy collar, i.e. it's its name. The latter seems much more likely though, given the paucity of references, and all to the same object.
- 68. | 26/07/2018
>>I've got the best round set aside for parties
Sorry if we were here before, but isn't it...?
I've got the best rants set aside for parties
Sorry if we were here before, but isn't it...?
I've got the best rants set aside for parties
- 69. | 29/07/2018
Shit, maybe. I don't know if we were there yet or not, this song is a MESS for us right now.
- 70. | 01/08/2018
I'm still hearing "best wines". I'm sorry, but I am.
- 71. | 06/08/2018
Apology accepted. I don't hear it but if you get one other person on your side I'll put in a note.
- 72. | 22/03/2019
It's Mark's idea of being in The Fall as being in the army. (Ref: Simon Rogers interview, "Mark would always say stuff like, we're British Army us, ...we weren't we were just pissed.")
And he's barmy for carrying on due to it's diminishing returns...despite this he carries on because...he's British Army.
And he's barmy for carrying on due to it's diminishing returns...despite this he carries on because...he's British Army.
- 73. | 23/03/2019
comment #72: what interview is that?
- 74. | 26/07/2019
Friends disintegrate within circles of cash
Residue and failures of fab genius
Is a pension for the jews
And a medal from the company
Which I wipe my arse on and hang it on a tree
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN86qnnlA_Y
Residue and failures of fab genius
Is a pension for the jews
And a medal from the company
Which I wipe my arse on and hang it on a tree
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN86qnnlA_Y
- 75. | 16/08/2019
OK sounds like "good one" to me, sorry.
- 76. | 16/08/2019
One thing jumps out, before I get to that part you transcribed: he definitely pronounces "hungry," not "Hungary" on that live version
- 77. | 16/08/2019
And he definitely does not say "great one," sounds like "good one"
I always liked "good one," like "ha-ha good joke" only sarcastic...I'm checking the studio version again
I always liked "good one," like "ha-ha good joke" only sarcastic...I'm checking the studio version again
- 78. | 16/08/2019
Also sounds like "cash"
- 79. | 16/08/2019
And "laburnum" still
- 80. | 16/08/2019
Sometimes "Just call me the first" sounds like "Just come in fast"
- 81. | 16/02/2020
"Pension for the Jews"
This could refer to retirement benefits, or to a guest house (see my comment 56). If retirement benefits, then note 6 on post-war reparative pensions is relevant.
But just on that point, I thought it was interesting to look into Nazi-era policy towards Jewish pensions.
Alfred C. Mierzejewski, Alfred C. (2017). Taking from the Weak, Giving to the Strong: The Jews and the German Statutory Pension System, 1933−1945, in Holocaust and Genocide Studies, Vol. 31 (2), Fall 2017, pp.193–214. https://doi.org/10.1093/hgs/dcx040:
This could refer to retirement benefits, or to a guest house (see my comment 56). If retirement benefits, then note 6 on post-war reparative pensions is relevant.
But just on that point, I thought it was interesting to look into Nazi-era policy towards Jewish pensions.
Alfred C. Mierzejewski, Alfred C. (2017). Taking from the Weak, Giving to the Strong: The Jews and the German Statutory Pension System, 1933−1945, in Holocaust and Genocide Studies, Vol. 31 (2), Fall 2017, pp.193–214. https://doi.org/10.1093/hgs/dcx040:
Nazi pension policy toward the Jews developed in three phases, conforming roughly to the overall evolution of Nazi anti-Jewish discrimination. First, until the end of 1934 the authorities took no action against Jews’ statutory pensions. Second, beginning in early 1935 those Jews who left Germany effectively lost their pension rights as a result of foreign exchange regulations dating to the Weimar Republic. Finally, beginning in 1941 Jews who were deported suffered confiscation of their pension assets. Remarkably, Jews who continued to live lawfully in Germany received benefits right up to the collapse of the Third
Reich; the government, however, used various legal devices to whittle away even at these.
- 82. | 14/03/2020
Good info Dan, and I finally got your guest house in there too
- 83. | 28/05/2020
maybe - out of england i dream of its green merrie - elongated to rhyme with the upcoming saxony
as in green and pleasant land and merrie england
as in green and pleasant land and merrie england
- 84. | 16/10/2020
Comment 73 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m554Pca7RFA
45:30 - MES on army discipline.
'He often said to me, 'we're B(ritish) Army us.'
45:30 - MES on army discipline.
'He often said to me, 'we're B(ritish) Army us.'
- 85. | 17/10/2020
I think in this connection (comment #73, but thanks for the interview citation) it's worth me pointing back to the WWI soldier's song I quoted in comment #1.
- 86. | 26/01/2021
From "Creek Show", by Edwin Pouncey (aka Savage Pencil of course) in Sounds, 28 September 1985, pp.6-7.
(most of this quoted above in note #1, but I just thought the full thing needed to be here for the record)
MES, p.6-7:
(most of this quoted above in note #1, but I just thought the full thing needed to be here for the record)
MES, p.6-7:
Did you get the riff? I pinched it from 'Valleri' by The Monkees. It came out well, that song, better than I thought. What we did was, we used all the '70s effects, Wah-Wah and all that. Wah-Wah pedals are great, when I play guitar with them it sounds great, whatever you play. You can see how all these people got away with it in the '60s and '70s.
I typed out 'Barmy' like it was a big deal, there are a lot more lines than I actually used, a lot more choruses. When we recorded it I was really sick, dead ill, I was on antibiotics. I had a really bad chest from smoking and not eating properly and it looked like I was going to have to go into hospital. When we did 'Barmy' you could hear it in my voice, this rattle of phlegm.
But it sounds good, it sounds better than if I'd done it straight.
- 87. | 06/02/2021
Dan, I don't know why I never incorporated your comment 1, it seems apposite particularly as he mentions WWI
- 88. | 06/02/2021
In fact it bumped the ever-infuriating "barmy collar," which doesn't seem like it needs to be in the notes.
- 89. | 28/05/2022
Tried isolating some of the vocals, and it sounds awfully like "I've got the the best rant(s) set aside...".
I don't think it's "hash" either. The hacienda version sounds like cash or gash (something with a sharp sound at the start). The rough mix is almost certainly "funds disintegrate within circles of glass" (drinking away all of your money perhaps?). And the album version sounds like a double track of both, sounding almost like "glash".
And more than likely nothing but along with the Napoleonic musings above - “If the world was only a single state, Istanbul would the capital.” (Napoleon Bonaparte) "Istanbul is the place..."
I don't think it's "hash" either. The hacienda version sounds like cash or gash (something with a sharp sound at the start). The rough mix is almost certainly "funds disintegrate within circles of glass" (drinking away all of your money perhaps?). And the album version sounds like a double track of both, sounding almost like "glash".
And more than likely nothing but along with the Napoleonic musings above - “If the world was only a single state, Istanbul would the capital.” (Napoleon Bonaparte) "Istanbul is the place..."
- 90. | 10/07/2022
I'd always heard it as 'a penchant for the juice', as in all he got was his alcoholism and a cheap medal from the company...
- 91. | 31/10/2022
Pete, comment #90 is spot on.
See that and other significant revisions suggested by the 29 November 2022 Omega Auctions Lot 411 lyric sheets:
Of course we have to be cautious, because what is written down may not be what is sung on record.
However, here we have "creamery" and "hungry" (if not a typo), "rants set aside for parties", "penchant for the juice", and so on.
See that and other significant revisions suggested by the 29 November 2022 Omega Auctions Lot 411 lyric sheets:
Of course we have to be cautious, because what is written down may not be what is sung on record.
However, here we have "creamery" and "hungry" (if not a typo), "rants set aside for parties", "penchant for the juice", and so on.
- 92. | 31/10/2022
Not the references to France/the French and their pronunciation difficulties...
- 93. | 03/11/2022
"Tamed in the word" and "real poison to the weird", which both feature on Smith's first lyric sheet, sound very much like what is being sung (and not "Take and bring a word").
- 94. | 01/12/2022
Please could we get the lyrics updated to reflect what is the recent lyric sheet revelations?
- 95. | 04/12/2022
Could maybe be something in here of Field Marshall von Blücher. He had a period of poor mental health involving delusions, spent time in England, and the Napoleonic wars are sometimes described as the first world war. But I have nothing more specific than that at the moment.
- 96. | 05/03/2023
These are the bits that need updating:
I got the best rants set aside for parties
An I'll have one when I'm done on Febday 6 0 3 1
Friends disintergrate within circles of cash
The residue after years of fad genius
Is a penchant for the juice
And a medal from the company
Which I wiped my butt on and hung on a laburnum tree
During the 'a dramtic verse' chant you can also hear parts of what is typed on the side of the lyric sheet:
A dramatic verse
The French
pronounce that
with great difficulty
they are tamed in the word
and real poison to the weird (sounds like word)
..and no - I dont know what it means!
Looks like it was originally drafted as part of the 'friends disintegrate with the cycles of money verse.
The french y'see have a great difficulty/ the french pronounce that with great difficulty
I'm presuming the word in question is 'Money', but didnt fit in the verse as he changed the word to cash.
Another scribbled version:
Friends disintergrate within cycles of Mon-ai
I cant even pronounce that
Due to French difficulty
I got the best rants set aside for parties
An I'll have one when I'm done on Febday 6 0 3 1
Friends disintergrate within circles of cash
The residue after years of fad genius
Is a penchant for the juice
And a medal from the company
Which I wiped my butt on and hung on a laburnum tree
During the 'a dramtic verse' chant you can also hear parts of what is typed on the side of the lyric sheet:
A dramatic verse
The French
pronounce that
with great difficulty
they are tamed in the word
and real poison to the weird (sounds like word)
..and no - I dont know what it means!
Looks like it was originally drafted as part of the 'friends disintegrate with the cycles of money verse.
The french y'see have a great difficulty/ the french pronounce that with great difficulty
I'm presuming the word in question is 'Money', but didnt fit in the verse as he changed the word to cash.
Another scribbled version:
Friends disintergrate within cycles of Mon-ai
I cant even pronounce that
Due to French difficulty
There are lots of variations to be found. Here's a typical example:
"Why did we join the army boys?
Why did we join the army?
Why did we come to France to fight?
We must have been bloody well barmy!"