Slates, Slags, Etc.

Lyrics

Here's the definitive rant 
Slates drive me bats  
Therefore I bait
Hey slates give us a break  (1)

Male slags,
Slags slates and tapes (2)
Everything's drained by the states 
They are the grey ones of our state I relate (3)
Male slags
Slags slates and tapes
Male stales
Slags slates and tapes

Male slags
Slags slates and tapes

And slates, break hard, break hardly
Break the slates for Christ's sake 
Male slags
Slags slates and tapes
Male slags, knock over your drink 
Pay for correct amount spilt  (4)
Male slags

Male slags
Remember slates are always outta date
In the fine light of day they have to face--
Well, I can't give a definition
The consequences of their plagiarisation (5)
Male slags
With greasy pants scrubbed hands
Kill jokes join gangs 
Kill the safety in our lands 
Male slags
Slags slates and tapes

Male slags
Slags slates and tapes
In the cold nearly old ska Jamaica dawn
Dead publisher's sons
Are material hardship pawns
The Beat, Wah! Heat    (6)
Male slags
Slags slates and tapes

(Bites the dick that feeds it)  (7)
Male slags
Slags slates and tapes
Male slates
Slags slates and tapes

Academic male slags 
Ream off names of books and bands 
Kill cultural interest in our land 
Male slags
Slags, slates and tapes
Male slates
With creaky pants, scrubbed hands
Male slags
Male slags

Okay mates
Let's get on to the valley of weights
The valley of weights
The valley of weights is the valley 
Where they cast off the weights 
And became (trite) uptight  (8)
Fat and bereft 
A liberty mess 
Male slates
Slags slates and tapes
Female slates 
Make hymns of your whims 
Break your balls, suck your thoughts
Rip-off bands 
With stuck up hair and shitty pants
New beatniks with hoop shirts 

Male slags
Slags slates and tapes
(Give me a break)
Big priest, give us a break 
Help me to fight the slates  (9)
Male slags
Slags slates and tapes

"How would you describe the slates?"
Don't start improvising for God's sake...
Male slags
Male slags
A-waa waa waa waa
Male slates
Slags slates and tapes

They are the grey ones of the state I relate
Everything's drained by the slates 
The valley of weights 
Okay mates 

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Notes

1. Iceland, 1981-09-12: "Hey priest, hooray hooray! Slates are here today!"

^

2. "Slag" is a British slang term that is sometimes used in an equivalent way to "slut" in the U.S., and like the latter term, it almost always describes a woman, hence the modifier "male slags." However, it can also be used to mean "a worthless or insignificant person, a coward, a petty criminal" (according to Jonathan Green's dictionary of slang, which also seems to indicate the sexual usage is less common--thanks to Stephen Parkin for this). "Slate" is a more complicated matter, and its use here has provoked much speculation. It is apparently not a common term, and, in fact, even people from the same general region as MES seem not to recognize it in the sense it is used here. It may be a coinage, and if so, there are a few relevant facts to be established. The word may be intended to function as a complementary insult to "slags" but one that is directed at men and, thus, applied to women here--in other words, a reversal of an invented "ordinary" usage already applied at the moment of its invention. I am led to this hypothesis by the circumstance that MES sings "female slates" at one point, as though the ordinary application of "slates" would suggest a male target of opprobrium. Although this is by no means common, "slate" can mean "a slovenly, dirty person," according to the OED. This fits the pattern of sexually demeaning epithets like "slut" and "slattern," and indeed "slag," although again this is rare, is sometimes employed as an adjective to mean "muddy"; a common noun form of the word denotes refuse matter from smelting, whereas "slate" is a word also used for shale by coal miners. Furthermore, in British slang "slate" is used as a verb meaning to harshly criticize, insult, verbally abuse, or dismiss someone, and "slag" is used in the very same way. "Slate" can also be a noun which indicates "a severe criticism, a slating" (again from the OED). Finally, and again in British slang, to "have a slate loose" can mean to be loopy or insane.

Reformation quotes the press release for the American summer tour of 1981:  "...is about plagiarisation and blackboard type people in this land of ours..."[sic] Blackboards, of course, are made out of slate. RT XVII suggests: "'Slates' is a term MES used to describe people who were grey, uniform and mundane, people without any inspiration or shred of individuality in their lives. Those who just accepted the status quo. Just like slate tiles, all grey and all the same." This seems consonant with the terse press release comment, and in the context of the song works very well. 

I do not take the sexual implications of these terms too literally, as the behavior Smith slags and slates is seemingly not simply sleeping around but being a nuisance in other ways; it is common to use "whore" to mean someone who is shameless and free with their substance and dignity, and I imagine that is probably a clue to the lyrics above. James Marriott below suggests that "slag" may also "relate to slag heaps - the mountain of shit records spilling down on and suffocating the public - as well as to the trend-chasing 'slags' making those records." This would perhaps also provide a clue to the third and most difficult to account for word on the list, "tapes"--I received a suggestion that the lyric is actually "Slags, slates send tapes" but, as convenient as this would be, it sounds to me like MES sings exactly what's written above, "Slags, slates and tapes." I have found no record anywhere of "tape" being used as an epithet to desribe a human being, so here it may acutally mean a recording, presumably one produced by slates, slags, or both, or forming a part of the aforementioned slag heap. 

Dr X O'Skeleton: "Another meaning of Slates could be vinyl records, which complements the tapes in the title."

MO submits that "tapes" could be referring to people who bootleg Fall gigs. The Fall were pressed to release live material, often with new songs, before it was bootlegged. As MO points out, like the "slates," bootleggers were a kind of copyist. 

See note 6 below. 

Paul Hanley in his book Have a Bleedin' Guess, talking about "The Classical" (p. 70):

"[T]he 'paste' theory was one of Mark's go-to theories which often popped up in other songs. Paste, in this context, is the substance that costume jewelry is made from, and as 'paste' was sometimes replaced by 'slate' live, this ties with the sentiment in 'Slates, Slags, Etc.' that the world is full of imitators of the truly talented."

At the NME awards in 2018, Brix gave a speech in a kind of tribute to MES. She proclaimed "Mark told me he believed there were only seven original people in the world, and that everyone else was a slate of one of them. Mark was absolutely one of the seven." This seems to suggest a "slate" is a kind of copy...

See also "The Classical" (particularly note 5): "There are twelve people in the world/The rest are paste."

(thanks to Robert)

Dan adds:

Should note here the sleeve note to the Lie Dream of a Casino Soul single:
 

Early this year, things were too gruesome to behold for this writer - The Fall had been diluted into part of an almost Betrayal environment; anti fashion schtick, backs to the audience mate, pass us the the hair dye wack - Mere Grubby Pseuds making capital out of The Fall sweat and pre-cog. This record is an answer to that and a brief sideways nod to what was thought but now needs to be said.

This is the Pre-amble youthful ramble of Big Priest. The ripper mentality hid well under ex Empire wealth. The above referred to slates'll be struck with revenge forthwith. 'FANTASTIC LIFE' relates itself.

Smith terminal '81



"Slates" there means the "Mere Grubby Pseuds making capital out of The Fall..."

On A Part of America Therein, MES sings in "Winter":

The mad kid had 4.75 lights
And the sign of genius is 4 lights
Now, most of us have 3 lights
Except um, slates, who have 2 lights

And, in the following excerpt submitted by Dan, "slate" seems to denote a copycat:

MES reviews the singles, Melody Maker, 03/10/98:


Re: The Cardigans - My Favourite Game:
 


MES: They're quite famous, aren't they? Are they Irish or something?

MM: Swedish.

MES: Swedish? They're just fucking slates, aren't they? They just try and play whatever they hear on the radio. It's like when you go to Scandinavia, everyone supports Man United. They've just heard Garbage. Why do those cunts earn twice as much money as me? I'll tell you. Cos they're Cardie Lads.

MM: What?

MES: Cardie lads, In Salford that's blokes who aren't 30, but dress like their grandads, Man United fans - 'my great-grandad's mate met Georgie Best' and all that. Cardie lad is as cardie lad does. That's the Cardigans



Dan: "Here 'slates' seems to mean 'copyists' or that kind of 'displaying what others write on them' meaning."

 

John Howard points out a resemblance to the Paul Revere and the Raiders version of "Have Love Will Travel," which, he points out, celebrates "slutty behavior," and has a "waa waa waa" part. One could more or less sing one over the other...

Dan points out that this sounds a bit like "Rema-Rema" by Rema-Rema (see also "Gut of the Quantifier," which to my ears resembles "Rema-Rema" much more closely).

^

3. Here is a possible clue to some of the implications of "slate": someone who is drab and perhaps a bit thick.  

^

4. Chris says "If you knock over someone's drink (esp. someone else's pint) in a UK pub you are (at least) expected to offer to pay for it."

^

5. MES is often very critical of those he considers plagiarists, which at first blush is odd because he borrows so freely, to say the least, in his own work. I think the key to this is not to take "plagiarization" too literally; the simple act of borrowing is not enough to make one a plagiarist, and originality is a more elusive concept in the world of the Fall than simply an index of where a few words, notes or ideas have their genesis.  

^

6. The Beat and Wah! Heat were British musical acts. Robert submitted a quote from the NME in October 1987:
"... Smith has continued, for a decade, to write lyrics which tower above the short-sighted attempts of his contemporaries, of whom he recognizes only Kevin Rowland [Dexys Midnight Runners] and Pete Wylie [Wah! Heat] as being any good." So this seems to indicate a positive attitude toward Wah! Heat, albeit the reference here is secondhand; and, on the other hand, MO submits the following: 

"The line mentioning 'The Beat and Wah! Heat' rung a bell, as they are two bands that were featured on the NME / Rough Trade C81 tape that was made available to readers of the NME in January '81. As noted here, the live version of Slags, Slates Etc. from Iceland 1981-09-12 adds mention of The Specials, who were also on C81.

C81 was famously the first of a series of promo tapes that NME were to offer over the next couple of decades. The 25 song tracklist featured bands from a range of independent labels, including Postcard, 2-Tone, Mute, and Stiff, but the bulk of those represented were on Rough Trade: the label The Fall were on at the time too, of course.

Why were The Fall not on C81? Was it put to Smith and he refused to be associated?

If you look at some of the lines that were added to the evolving Slags, Slates, Etc., it is interesting to note that the early version documented on the Live in London tape (from December '80, therefore before the NME C81 launch in Jan '81) does not have this mention of The Beat and Wah Heat, whereas the Slates recored version (released April '81) and later live versions do include it.

Additionally, there is a line in the live version from Iceland that comes right after the mention of The Beat and Wah Heat about 'Cut out your coupons.' This has to be a further clue re: C81, as it was necessary to collect tokens from successive issues of NME to submit with your £1.50 in order to get a copy of the tape."

Iceland 1981-09-12: "Wah! Heat, white Uncle Toms...The Beat, Specials (fought?) by hot meat"

Queen Mary's College Ballroom 1981-02-05: "Wah! Heat, The Beat/Young and old Uncle Tom's/In the cold nearly old ska Jamican dawn/ Dead publisher's sons/Self-created genius lies broken/Because of male slags..." 

^

7. This throwaway line is an odd image to return to, but some 30 years later MES proclaims "I had to wank off the cat to feed the fucking dog" ("Greenway"). In the latter case, the line is a near-quote from "But I've Got Texas" by Jon Wayne, a "Cowpunk" band formed of session musicians playing under assumed names, in which the relevant lyric is "I had to jack off the dog just to feed the goddamn cat."  

^

8. "The valley of weights" seems like a drug reference at first, but the ensuing lyrics don't lend much support to this view. Mr. Marshall from the Fall Online Forum has identified a probable source for this line in The Gods of the Labyrinth by Colin Wilson (publishes as The Hedonists in the USA). The novel's protagonist, Gerald Sorme, is hired by a publisher to edit a book on one Esmond Donelly, a mysterious 18th century character who seems to be involved in something called "The Order of the Phoenix" (which is taken from a story by Jorge Luis Borges, where it is an esoteric cult which is probably centered around sex; note also the Borgesian title of Wilson's book). "Sorme" writes:

"What most impressed me about Esmond Donelly was the modernness of his mind. The language is the language of Walpole or Grey; the thought was often closer to Goethe, or even William Blake. The central point of his argument against Hume and d'Alembert is very simple: that when man outgrows religious authority, he usually becomes the victim of his own triviality. When does man most frequently experience the sensation of freedom? he asks and answers: When he is bored. "Boredom is to be free, but to experience no particular impulse to make use of the freedom.'"
And he invents a Swiftian parable to illustrate his points:

In the midst of the high mountains of Tartary, he says, there is a valley in which dwells a race of small but sturdy and healthy people. From the earliest times, it has been part of the religious observance of these people to carry two heavy weights, in the shape of a water-bottle, on either side of the waist. They would no more think of walking abroad without their weights than an Englishman would think of walking naked along Whitehall. They wear them from birth to death, and there are strict penalties for removing them. 

But the greatest pleasure of this race is the exercise of walking, and a small band of rebels declare that the weights are intended to make walking uncomfortable. Then even bolder spirits declare that man should be able to fly like a bird or float like a balloon, and that the weights are intended to prevent them from enjoying the freedom for which they were created.

There is a revolution; the king is executed (a remarkable anticipation of the execution of Louis XVI), and the people tear off their weights. To their amazement, nothing happens, except that they find it hard to maintain balance without them. The more timid spirits resume their weights; the bolder ones practise walking without them, and soon declare that it is merely a matter of habit.  

They are so delighted with this new accomplishment that at first they walk day and night, striding from one end of the valley to the other, and even attempting to climb the mountains. They soon discover that the mountains are sheer walls of rock that cannot be scaled. And now some of the weightless ones fall into a frenzy and rush frantically from one end of the valley to the other until they collapse with exhaustion. Others attempt to scale the steep walls out of the valley, and either fall down when they are exhausted, or cast themselves down out of terror or despair. 

But by far the larger number of the weightless ones simply sit at home, utterly bored, since they know every inch of the valley. They jeer at the people who still wear weights, calling them superstitious hogs. But after a few generations these weightless ones are dead, for their lack of exercise makes them grow immensely fat and die at an early age. 

Finally, only those who wear weights continue to survive; they elect a king, and for many generations the Great Revolt is only a terrifying memory. Until a sect arises that declares that man was created to fly like a bird...

The story sounds utterly pessimistic, an allegory of original sin. But I am inclined to reject this view. For Donelly says: 'There were some of those climbers who were never seen again; yet certain shepherds whose flocks fed under the shadow of the great walls affirmed that they heard voices hallooing from far above their heads, where the slopes of the mountain vanished into the clouds.' In other words, perhaps a few of the climbers got beyond the cliffs and over the top of the mountains.

What Donelly is saying - and it is a remarkable perception for a seventeen-year-old boy - is not that 'Men need weights,' but that the men of the valley need weights. They are healthy, sturdy and adventurous (i.e. love walking), and the only way in which to maintain these qualities in their tiny valley is to wear heavy weights. But a few among them, a very few, are born climbers..."

On the other hand, Steve suggests another story concerning weights, although this one lacks a valley: "Harrison Bergeron" by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr., in which people are forced to wear weights and accept other handicaps so that no one is stronger, smarter or better than anyone else. See "More Information" below for Steve's excellent summation of the story.

^

9. The recurring "Hip Priest" or "Big Priest" is here enlisted as a kind of superhero to fight off the slags and slates. I point this out because it's an interesting question to what extent MES identifies with, and to what extent he mocks, this character, and this is another bit of evidence on the positive side (in the end he seems to be just as ambiguous a figure as anyone else in Fall lyrics). The character can be Mark Smith, or someone Mark Smith reviles, or both at once, it seems.  

^

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More Information

Slates, Slags, Etc.: Fall Tracks A-Z

Much speculation about the terminology in the song at the forum

 

From the back cover of Slates (thanks to Dan):

SLATES, SLAGS ETC.

Full bias content guaranteed.
Plagiarism infests the land.
Academic thingys ream off names of 
books and bands

 

Steve's summary of Vonnegut's "Harrison Bergeron":

In the year 2081, amendments to the Constitution dictate that all Americans are fully equal and not allowed to be smarter, better-looking, or more physically able than anyone else. The Handicapper General's agents enforce the equality laws, forcing citizens to wear "handicaps": masks for those who are too beautiful, radios inside the ears of intelligent people, and heavy weights for the strong or athletic. One April, 14-year-old Harrison Bergeron, an intelligent and athletic teenager, is taken away from his parents, George and Hazel Bergeron, by the government. They are barely aware of the tragedy, as Hazel has "average" intelligence (a euphemism for stupidity), and George has a handicap radio installed by the government to regulate his above-average intelligence. Hazel and George watch ballet on television. They comment on the dancers, who are weighed down to counteract their gracefulness and masked to hide their attractiveness. George's thoughts are continually interrupted by the different noises emitted by his handicap radio, which piques Hazel's curiosity and imagination regarding handicaps. Noticing his exhaustion, Hazel urges George to lie down and rest his "handicap bag", 47 pounds (21 kg) of weights locked around George's neck. She suggests taking a few of the weights out of the bag, but George resists, aware of the illegality of such an action. On television, a news reporter struggles to read the bulletin and hands it to the ballerina wearing the most grotesque mask and heaviest weights. She begins reading in her unacceptably natural, beautiful voice, then apologizes before switching to a more unpleasant voice. Harrison's escape from prison is announced, and a full-body photograph of Harrison is shown, indicating that he is seven feet (2.1 m) tall and burdened by three hundred pounds (140 kg) of handicaps. George recognizes his son for a moment, before having the thought eliminated by his radio. Harrison himself then storms the studio in an attempt to overthrow the government. He calls himself the Emperor and rips off all of his handicaps, along with the handicaps of a ballerina who he proclaims his "Empress". He orders the musicians to play, promising them royalty if they do their best. Unhappy with their initial attempt, Harrison takes control for a short while, and the music improves. After listening and being moved by the music, Harrison and his Empress dance while flying to the ceiling, then pause in mid-air to kiss. Diana Moon Glampers, the Handicapper General, enters the studio and kills Harrison and the Empress with a ten-gauge double-barreled shotgun. She forces the musicians to put on their handicaps, and the television goes dark. George, unaware of the televised incident, returns from the kitchen and asks Hazel why she was crying, to which she replies that something sad happened on television that she cannot remember. He comforts her and they return to their average lives.

Comments (95)

Robert
  • 1. Robert | 01/05/2013
Re: plagarism:
That "wank off" line from Greenway originally comes from "I've Got Texas" by Jon Wayne.
Robert
  • 2. Robert | 01/05/2013
Re: plagarism:
That "wank off" line from Greenway originally comes from "I've Got Texas" by Jon Wayne.
dannyno
  • 3. dannyno | 07/05/2013
"Let's get onto the valley of weights
The valley of weights is the valley
Where they cast off the weights
And became trite, uptight"

Mr.Marshall on the Fall Forum noted that this was inspired by a passage in Colin Wilson's "The Gods of the Labyrinth" (published as "The Hedonists" in the US, this is one of the Gerard Sorme trilogy which includes "Ritual in the Dark): http://z1.invisionfree.com/thefall/index.php?showtopic=35183&st=0

Here is the passage (p.48-50 of the edition I have to hand, which is the 1977 Panther Books paperback) (note obligatory William Blake reference!):

"What most impressed me about Esmond Donelly was the modernness of his mind. The language is the language of Walpole or Grey; the thought was often closer to Goethe, or even William Blake. The central point of his argument against Hume and d'Alembert is very simple: that when man outgrows religious authority, he usually becomes the victim of his own triviality. When does man most frequently experience the sensation of freedom? he asks and answers: When he is bored. "Boredom is to be free, but to experience no particular impulse to make use of the freedom."
And he invents a Swiftian parable to illustrate his points.

In the midst of the high mountains of Tartary, he says, there is a valley in which dwells a race of small but sturdy and healthy people. From the earliest times, it has been part of the religious observance of these people to carry two heavy weights, in the shape of a water-bottle, on either side of the waist. They would no more think of walking abroad without their weights than an Englishman would think of walking naked along Whitehall. They wear them from birth to death, and there are strict penalties for removing them.

But the greatest pleasure of this race is the exercise of walking, and a small band of rebels declare that the weights are intended to make walking uncomfortable. Then even bolder spirits declare that man should be able to fly like a bird or float like a balloon, and that the weights are intended to prevent them from enjoying the freedom for which they were created.

There is a revolution; the king is executed (a remarkable anticipation of the execution of Louis XVI), and the people tear off their weights. To their amazement, nothing happens, except that they find it hard to maintain balance without them. The more timid spirits resume their weights; the bolder ones practise walking without them, and soon declare that it is merely a matter of habit.

They are so delighted with this new accomplishment that at first they walk day and night, striding from one end of the valley to the other, and even attempting to climb the mountains. They soon discover that the mountains are sheer walls of rock that cannot be scaled. And now some of the weightless ones fall into a frenzy and rush frantically from one end of the valley to the other until they collapse with exhaustion. Others attempt to scale the steep walls out of the valley, and either fall down when they are exhausted, or cast themselves down out of terror or despair.

But by far the larger number of the weightless ones simply sit at home, utterly bored, since they know every inch of the valley. They jeer at the people who still wear weights, calling them superstitious hogs. But after a few generations these weightless ones are dead, for their lack of exercise makes them grow immensely fat and die at an early age.

Finally, only those who wear weights continue to survive; they elect a king, and for many generations the Great Revolt is only a terrifying memory. Until a sect arises that declares that man was created to fly like a bird...

The story sounds utterly pessimistic, an allegory of original sin. But I am inclined to reject this view. For Donelly says: 'There were some of those climbers who were never seen again; yet certain shepherds whose flocks fed under the shadow of the great walls affirmed that they heard voices hallooing from far above their heads, where the slopes of the mountain vanished into the clouds.' In other words, perhaps a few of the climbers got beyond the cliffs and over the top of the mountains.

What Donelly is saying - and it is a remarkable perception for a seventeen-year-old boy - is not that 'Men needs weights'j, but that the men of the valley need weights. They are healthy, sturdy and adventurous (i.e. love walking), and the only way in which to maintain these qualities in their tiny valley is to wear heavy weights. But a few among them, a very few, are born climbers..."

Reminds me a bit of "Frightened" - 'don't know how to use freedom', and all that.

Dan
Stephen Parkin
  • 4. Stephen Parkin | 07/08/2013
According to Jonathan Green's dictionary of slang, "Slag" means a worthless or insignificant person, a coward, a petty criminal; the sexual meaning is given last, and is a minor meaning.

The late 70s/80s TV show "Minder" (set amongst petty criminals in London) seemed to use it a lot, but it was always between men, and was meant in the "Worthless" or "Cowardly" sense.

That's how I've always thought it was meant here, with the "Male" added to make it plain that he was not referring to women in a sexist manner (the NME would have gone on about that, I'm sure).
dannyno
  • 5. dannyno | 18/02/2014
"Don't start improvising for Christ's sake"

A classic Lyrics Parade mistake, perpetuated here The line is, and this is not even hard to make out:

"Don't start improvising for God's sake"

Mark Fisher's "Memorex for the Krakens" talks about the mistaken version of the line, without realising it is wrong (didn't he *listen*?). I hope he is suitably embarrassed.
bzfgt
  • 6. bzfgt | 22/02/2014
I'm sure he's mortified.
dannyno
  • 7. dannyno | 07/08/2014
Oh, just noticed that your note 5 hasn't yet taken into account my note 3 via mr marshall.
dannyno
  • 8. dannyno | 07/08/2014
"became trite, uptight"

I actually only hear "became uptight". The main vocals and the backing vocals do overlay each other at that point, though.
James Marriott
  • 9. James Marriott | 17/12/2014
Slates is a slang term for 7" inch singles, esp in Jamaican music. You get a better bass sound on 7" than 12". For that reason, PiL had released Metal Box as a collection of 7" records rather than a conventional LP not long before the Fall's 'Slates'. This was also the time of 2-tone: the ska revival. The Fall set themselves apart by releasing 'Slates' as a 10" inch record. It's not an album, EP or single.

Also, though this is more tenuous: slags may relate to slag heaps - the mountain of shit records spilling down on and suffocating the public - as well as to the trend-chasing 'slags' making those records.
James Marriott
  • 10. James Marriott | 19/01/2015
re: my previous point, I misremembered. I typed 7", but meant that Metal Box was on 45rpm 12" discs. That better bass sound is on 12" 45s compared with 12" 33 1/3s. Ska/2tone, however, was more about 7" 45s - singles, not extended dubs. Slates being on 10" is still unusual, but sort of fits into a trend of bands trying to find new ways for people to listen to their music. LPs had become accepted as the right way to hear serious rock music (AOR) simply because of the technical restrictions of vinyl records. PiL were allowing people the chance to shuffle their album of listen to a few songs at a time, rather than the whole thing.
dannyno
  • 11. dannyno | 04/02/2016
Allow me a whimsical observation. I'm sure this has nothing to do with anything, I just like it.

So in The Flintstones cartoon series, the character of Fred's boss Mr Slate was voiced by John Stephenson. Stephenson also voiced several characters in the Wacky Races cartoon series, which featured the Slag Brothers - two cavemen called Rock and Gravel (but they weren't voiced by Stephenson). There is also a Flintstones character called Rock Slag who appeared in the 1966 Flintstones movie, "The Man Called Flintstone".
Chris
  • 12. Chris | 05/01/2017
As already stated, 12" singles are 'best for bass'
chris
  • 13. chris | 05/01/2017
"drive me bats" = "makes me get mad/go crazy"

"pay for correct amount spilt" - if you knock over someone's drink (esp. someone else's pint) in a UK pub you are (at least) expected to offer to pay for it

The Beat (called the London Beat in US) and Wah! Heat (aka Pete Wylie) were/are British bands/artist vehicles
Zack
  • 14. Zack | 11/01/2017
At about 5:24 one of the guitarists (probably Riley, that old showboat) starts playing the riff in a higher octave, and at 5:34 MES shouts "Don't start improvising," at which point the guitarist dutifully returns the riff to its original octave. I have always wondered if this exchange was a truly spontaneous instance of Totale's Turns-esque hectoring caught on tape in the studio, or if it was scripted.
bzfgt
  • 15. bzfgt | 28/01/2017
Right, like the "Come on fellas, get it together" or whatever on "Choc Stock" which happens on every version.

Crap, I seem to have a backlogged mess here, of course 12" records have more room and should be better for bass, and I don't even know what all else...I must roll up my sleeves, I fear. It looks like there's stuff from 2013 I haven't even incorporated yet.
bzfgt
  • 16. bzfgt | 28/01/2017
James:

OK, I can't quite get this straight. "Slates" is slang for 7" records, so is that still relevant? This is a 10" record, which is close to halfway between 7 and 10. But I'm not sure what I'm supposed to say at this point, if I change "7" to "12" and vice versa in your (James) comment and vice versa, what happens? Or [larger disc] for 7"? I can't straighten out if there's anything left in your comment.

Slates is longer than a single and larger than a single, but shorter and smaller than an LP. So 10 inches wouldn't, prima facie seem to be significant--it's a commensurate size with it's length, it would seem, without being extra hifi. I don't know this, it's just a guess based on the rough parameters I can estimate from what you're saying and what I otherwise know, which is that bigger=higher fi and vice versa. So I am excising your comment, unless/until you want to reformulate it in a way that makes sense in context again.
bzfgt
  • 17. bzfgt | 28/01/2017
"'Men needs weights'j,"

I wonder if it is "Man needs weights" or "men need weights." Anyway as long as that is I think I need to put it in the notes.
bzfgt
  • 18. bzfgt | 28/01/2017
Aubrey, I take your point but also the modifier "male slags" seems to suggest to me the sexual meaning. I kind of split the difference in my note now.
bzfgt
  • 19. bzfgt | 28/01/2017
Sorry, I mean I get your argument as to why it may not be used that way but it doesn't seem to me to clearly indicate he's not using the sexual meaning at all, if it is a minor usage then there'd be little need, and it would be a very un-MES bending over backward to be PC...I don't know, it's confusing, everything is confusing, I should have slept before looking at this.
bzfgt
  • 20. bzfgt | 28/01/2017
I didn't think "drive me bats" needed a note, is there anyone who doesn't know that, or is there anything else it could mean? Is that an uncommon thing to say in England or something? Here it's barely even slang, no one would have to have it explained.
Dr X O'Skeleton
  • 21. Dr X O'Skeleton | 17/05/2017
Another meaning of Slates could be vinyl records, which complements the tapes in the title
Robert
  • 22. Robert | 18/06/2017
An addendum to point 5: I remember reading an interview from sometime in the mid-to-late 80s where MES said the only other contemporary lyricists he rated were Kevin Rowland (of Dexys) and Pete Wylie (of Wah).
Robert
  • 23. Robert | 18/06/2017
Found it... from the NME in October 1987:
"... Smith has continued, for a decade, to write lyrics which tower above the short-sighted attempts of his contemporaries, of whom he recognizes only Kevin Rowland and Pete Wylie as being any good."
dannyno
  • 24. dannyno | 19/06/2017
dannyno
  • 25. dannyno | 25/06/2017
The back cover of "Slates" has this note:


SLATES, SLAGS ETC.

Full bias content guaranteed.
Plagiarism infests the land.
Academic thingys ream off names of
books and bands
RT XVII
  • 26. RT XVII | 03/02/2018
"Slates" is a term MES used to describe people who were grey, uniform and mundane, people without any inspiration or shred of individuality in their lives. Those who just accepted the status quo. Just like slate tiles, all grey and all the same.
bzfgt
  • 27. bzfgt (link) | 17/02/2018
That seems real, RT. I'll work it in.

Wasn't there a post on the FOF recently identifying a use of "slates" to mean records, or something? Dan, does that ring bells?
Robert
  • 28. Robert | 18/02/2018
Brix at NME Awards 2018

"Mark told me he believed there were only seven original people in the world, and that everyone else was a slate of one of them."
bzfgt
  • 29. bzfgt (link) | 19/02/2018
Great catch, Robert. That gave me something for Nine Out of Ten, too...
Robert
  • 30. Robert | 20/02/2018
Also, compare with "There are twelve people in the world, the rest are paste" from The Classical.
Robert
  • 31. Robert | 20/02/2018
I'm hearing:
"Everything's strained by the slates" (in both places where this lyric appears)
"With creased pants and scrubbed hands"
Robert
  • 32. Robert | 20/02/2018
I just listened to a live version from Auckland (on YouTube) where he clearly says "slates" in the first line I just mentioned... but he also clearly says "creaky pants". So disregard that suggestion.
Robert
  • 33. Robert | 21/02/2018
Something else heard in the Auckland version: "Make hymns of your whims"

Also, in several places MES sings "Slags, slates and apes." The writer Wyndham Lewis, a favorite of Smith's, wrote a novel called The Apes of God. It's years since I read it so I'll quote Wikipedia:
It is a satire of London's contemporary literary and artistic scene. [...] The 'Apes of God' that he meets are imitators of true creators; they are characterised as "prosperous mountebanks who alternately imitate and mock at and traduce those figures they at once admire and hate."
bzfgt
  • 34. bzfgt (link) | 24/02/2018
Thank you, Robert! I thought of that when I went to bed that night, and then forgot the whole thing next day...
bzfgt
  • 35. bzfgt (link) | 24/02/2018
The Classical connection I meant in the last comment, I see there are a few here now...
bzfgt
  • 36. bzfgt (link) | 24/02/2018
31: Yes, "States" is weird. I'll check. Crap, I do hear "states" the first time, haven't got to the other yet...I'm not sure why it's capitalized though, that would imply the UNited States maybe but it seems like too interpretive a transcription.

OK, "slates" second time though. First time the capital letter is zapped.

Now focusing on "creased", I suspect you will turn out to be correct there...
bzfgt
  • 37. bzfgt (link) | 24/02/2018
Oh, I see, you confirmed "creaky." Checking the whims, I'll either change it or note it, depending.

Yeah, we've gotThe Apes of God in New Puritan, I'll look at it.
bzfgt
  • 38. bzfgt (link) | 24/02/2018
Clearly "ream of names"...
bzfgt
  • 39. bzfgt (link) | 24/02/2018
I made several corrections, I'll have to go through this carefully, it's a bit of a mess.
bzfgt
  • 40. bzfgt (link) | 24/02/2018
WHere do you hear "apes"? I'm not catching it. As I say, though, I have to listen to this whole thing and try to fix it...
bzfgt
  • 41. bzfgt (link) | 24/02/2018
I fixed a bunch of stuff, some it inexplicable (but doubtlessly LP-derived) "males slates" and added some repeated lines as is my recent wont. The backing vocals say some things I can't catch, some of it maybe about "plates." I didn't hear any "apes."
bzfgt
  • 42. bzfgt (link) | 24/02/2018
"Shitty pants," not "new shitty pants"

"Dog bites the dicks that feeds it" = "bites the dick that feeds it", no "dog"

Shit, Dan, there's some other things, I don't know if you want to cross check with your concordance; it's hard to keep track of it all
bzfgt
  • 43. bzfgt (link) | 24/02/2018
OK Dan, "strained" is gone, replaced with "drained"
Robert
  • 44. Robert | 24/02/2018
Sorry... "apes" doesn't appear anywhere in the studio recording. All of the suggestions in my last couple of comments are based on the live version I mentioned (Auckland 1982, here).

His use of "apes" stood out to me given that the song, in part, seems to share the theme of the Lewis book. And the fact that "tapes" is somewhat inscrutable here.

I just listened to another live version, on the Live in London 1980 album, and he also uses "apes" there several times.
dannyno
  • 45. dannyno | 08/03/2018
This is what I have for the concordance (revised from what's up there at the moment). I get a bit lost around what I have rendered as "creaky pants" - also what you have here - not completely sure of that:

Here's the definitive rant
Slates drive me bats
Therefore I say, "hey slates, give us a break"

Male slags, slags, slates and tapes
Everything's strained by the States
They are the grey ones of our state I relate
Male slags, slags, slates and tapes
Male slates, slags, slates and tapes
Male slags, slags, slates and tapes

And slates, break hard, break hardly
Break the slates for Christ's sake
Male slags, slags, slates and tapes
Male slags, knock over your drink
Pay for correct amount spilt
Male slags
Remember slates are always out of date
In the fine light of day they have to face
Well I can't give a definition
The consequences of their plagiarisation
Male slags
With greedy bastard scrubbed hands
Kill jokes, join gangs
Kill the safety in our lands
Male slags, slags, slates and tapes
Male slags, slags, slates and tapes
In the cold nearly old ska Jamaican dawn
Dead publisher's sons
Material hardship pawns
The Beat, Wah! Heat
Male slags, slags, slates and tapes
(Dog bites the dicks that feeds it)
Male slags, slags, slates and tapes
Male slates, slags, slates and tapes
Academic male slags
Ream off names of books and bands
Kill cultural interest in our land
Male slags, slags, slates and tapes
Male slates
Male slags
Male slags
With creaky pants and scrubbed hands

OK mates, let's get onto the valley of weights
The valley of weights
The valley of weights is the valley where they cast off the weights and became uptight
Deaf and bereft
A liberty mess
Male slates, slags, slates and tapes
Female slates
Make pins of your whims
Break your balls, suck your thoughts
Rip-off bands with stuck up hair and shitty pants
New beatniks with hoop shirts
Male slates, slags, slates and tapes
Big priest, give us a break
Help me to fight the slates
Male slags, slags, slates and tapes

How would you describe the slates?
Don't start improvising for God's sake
Male slags
Male slags
Male slates, slags, slates and tapes
They are the grey ones of the state I relate
Everything's strained by the slates
The valley of weights
OK mates
dannyno
  • 46. dannyno | 08/03/2018
I am hearing "dog" re biting dicks.
dannyno
  • 47. dannyno | 27/03/2018
Should note here the sleeve note to the Lie Dream of a Casino Soul single:

Early this year, things were too gruesome to behold for this writer - The Fall had been diluted into part of an almost Betrayal environment; anti fashion schtick, backs to the audience mate, pass us the the hair dye wack - Mere Grubby Pseuds making capital out of The Fall sweat and pre-cog. This record is an answer to that and a brief sideways nod to what was thought but now needs to be said.

This is the Pre-amble youthful ramble of Big Priest. The ripper mentality hid well under ex Empire wealth. The above referred to slates'll be struck with revenge forthwith. 'FANTASTIC LIFE' relates itself.

Smith terminal '81


"Slates" there means the "Mere Grubby Pseuds making capital out of The Fall..."
John Howard
  • 48. John Howard | 13/09/2018
speaking of plagiarism, this song has a more than a passing resemblance to garage chestnut Have Love Will Travel. Not only is it a bit of pun (Have Love definitely celebrates slutty behavior) but the "waah waaah waah" part is lifted whole from the Paul Revere and The Raiders version.
herman pett
  • 49. herman pett | 29/09/2018
In Scotland, 'sticky tapes' (sometimes shortened to just 'tapes') is used to denote roman catholics. It's not used often (compared to other instances of rhyming slang) but I have heard it used. By people from Perth, if memory serves.
bzfgt
  • 50. bzfgt (link) | 13/10/2018
These last two comments are very intriguing. I have to let this simmer and come back to it...I'll mention something about Paul Revere for now...
bzfgt
  • 51. bzfgt (link) | 13/10/2018
OK I just quoted you guys
bzfgt
  • 52. bzfgt (link) | 13/10/2018
Oops--herman I can't find any corroboration of "sticky tapes," can you get me some?
dannyno
  • 53. dannyno | 11/11/2018
Musically, the riff very closely resembles Rema Rema by Rema Rema.
bzfgt
  • 54. bzfgt (link) | 21/11/2018
Dan, do you not think "Rema Rema" also resembles "Gut of the Quantifier"? The cadence with which they sing "rema rema"/"stick it in the gut," and the drum beat?
Robert
  • 55. Robert | 03/01/2019
Something else heard in the Auckland version: "Make hymns of your whims"


This is also in the Live in London 1980 version.
bzfgt
  • 56. bzfgt (link) | 26/01/2019
"Pins" doesn't even rhyme...I hear "hymns" here too, "pins" is out
Bazhdaddy
  • 57. Bazhdaddy | 07/02/2019
Friendly Suggestions;
Opening bit; "therefore I bate" - a bit swallowed here but clear on live takes
00:25 "everything's strained"
01:50 "With greasy pants and scrubbed hands"
02:54 "dog bites..."
03:33 "ream off names"
04:25 "bad and bereft"

The chaos tapes version expands on the VofW a bit;
“The valley of weights was a valley where everybody wore weights, but once they had rid of the weights, once they got rid of the weights, they become trite, trite and uptight, too much freedom for small brain [regime?], too much freedom for Fall friend [regime?]”
This early version has several “male apes” in it so that phrase was at least there in the origins
Bazhdaddy
  • 58. Bazhdaddy | 07/02/2019
"Therefore I bait" rather
bzfgt
  • 59. bzfgt (link) | 21/03/2019
You're right, very clear on the live version I checked and clear enough here. But why "bate" rather than "bait"? "Bate" seems like quite the opposite of what he's doing. I'm going with "bait" in lieu of a logos for the other.
bzfgt
  • 60. bzfgt (link) | 21/03/2019
00:25 "everything's strained" Hard to say but live versions sound more like "drained"

01:50 "With greasy pants and scrubbed hands" Definitely

02:54 "dog bites..." I hear no "dog," are you going from a live version?

Also, if anyone can check the 9-12-81 at 3:12 (Martin?) version for "The Beat, Specials (fought?) by hot meat"
"Are material hardship pawns" might be "Our material hardship forms"

03:33 "ream off names" Yes

04:25 "bad and bereft" I have "fat and bereft" live versions confirm
bzfgt
  • 61. bzfgt (link) | 21/03/2019
Bazhdaddy, sorry I posted straight away on reading 57 and before reading 58! Bad habit.
dannyno
  • 62. dannyno | 16/04/2019
MES reviews the singles, Melody Maker, 03/10/98.
http://thefall.org/news/981102.html#mm

Re: The Cardigans - My Favourite Game:


MES: They're quite famous, aren't they? Are they Irish or something?

MM: Swedish.

MES: Swedish? They're just fucking slates, aren't they? They just try and play whatever they hear on the radio. It's like when you go to Scandinavia, everyone supports Man United. They've just heard Garbage. Why do those cunts earn twice as much money as me? I'll tell you. Cos they're Cardie Lads.

MM: What?

MES: Cardie lads, In Salford that's blokes who aren't 30, but dress like their grandads, Man United fans - 'my great-grandad's mate met Georgie Best' and all that. Cardie lad is as cardie lad does. That's the Cardigans


here "slates" seems to mean "copyists" or that kind of "displaying what others write on them" meaning.
jensotto
  • 63. jensotto | 29/06/2019
Mark Slate: April Dancer's british partner in The Girl from U.N.C.L.E. Played by Noel Harrison. Working for Mr Waverly (not the Edinburgh spelling). BBC Genome: The series ran from 27 Oct 1966 until 9 Nov 1967 https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/search/0/20?order=asc&q=Mark+slate+girl#search - eg 14 Sept 1967 ...
The series ran every other Thursday, so there is Top of the Pops in the picture as well. Tvpopdiaries from 27 Oct 1966 has debuts of DC5 - 19 days, and Spencer Davis - Gimme Some Lovin (Spencer must die)

Minstry of Verse: Searching Genome for Slate + Smith, we find A.P. Herbert's operetta "The Red Pen" 24 March 1925
Russell RICHARDSON
  • 64. Russell RICHARDSON | 23/11/2019
who cares now, really...
but
"weights" is how cigarettes used to be sold - singly. They'd be in a big jar in the shop, and you'd ask for "three weights" or somesuch
I don't know if you could ask for a single weight
but the price would be accordingly low
this, in the mid 1970s
I confess I never saw this in Manchester, only when I lived and worked (in the Player's factory) in Nottingham
would be interested to know more about the phenomenon
steve
  • 65. steve | 15/02/2020
Re: 'weights'

It's been suggested to me that Kurt Vonnegut's Harrison Bergeron might be relevant.

In the year 2081, amendments to the Constitution dictate that all Americans are fully equal and not allowed to be smarter, better-looking, or more physically able than anyone else. The Handicapper General's agents enforce the equality laws, forcing citizens to wear "handicaps": masks for those who are too beautiful, radios inside the ears of intelligent people, and heavy weights for the strong or athletic. One April, 14-year-old Harrison Bergeron, an intelligent and athletic teenager, is taken away from his parents, George and Hazel Bergeron, by the government. They are barely aware of the tragedy, as Hazel has "average" intelligence (a euphemism for stupidity), and George has a handicap radio installed by the government to regulate his above-average intelligence. Hazel and George watch ballet on television. They comment on the dancers, who are weighed down to counteract their gracefulness and masked to hide their attractiveness. George's thoughts are continually interrupted by the different noises emitted by his handicap radio, which piques Hazel's curiosity and imagination regarding handicaps. Noticing his exhaustion, Hazel urges George to lie down and rest his "handicap bag", 47 pounds (21 kg) of weights locked around George's neck. She suggests taking a few of the weights out of the bag, but George resists, aware of the illegality of such an action. On television, a news reporter struggles to read the bulletin and hands it to the ballerina wearing the most grotesque mask and heaviest weights. She begins reading in her unacceptably natural, beautiful voice, then apologizes before switching to a more unpleasant voice. Harrison's escape from prison is announced, and a full-body photograph of Harrison is shown, indicating that he is seven feet (2.1 m) tall and burdened by three hundred pounds (140 kg) of handicaps. George recognizes his son for a moment, before having the thought eliminated by his radio. Harrison himself then storms the studio in an attempt to overthrow the government. He calls himself the Emperor and rips off all of his handicaps, along with the handicaps of a ballerina who he proclaims his "Empress". He orders the musicians to play, promising them royalty if they do their best. Unhappy with their initial attempt, Harrison takes control for a short while, and the music improves. After listening and being moved by the music, Harrison and his Empress dance while flying to the ceiling, then pause in mid-air to kiss. Diana Moon Glampers, the Handicapper General, enters the studio and kills Harrison and the Empress with a ten-gauge double-barreled shotgun. She forces the musicians to put on their handicaps, and the television goes dark. George, unaware of the televised incident, returns from the kitchen and asks Hazel why she was crying, to which she replies that something sad happened on television that she cannot remember. He comforts her and they return to their average lives.
bzfgt
  • 66. bzfgt (link) | 14/03/2020
Good idea!
bzfgt
  • 67. bzfgt (link) | 14/03/2020
Should I move the Colin Willson summary to "More Information" also?
dannyno
  • 68. dannyno | 20/03/2020
Well, the Vonnegut thing is more of an echo, deliberate or otherwise, whereas the Wilson thing is evidently the actual source.
bzfgt
  • 69. bzfgt (link) | 27/03/2020
Agreed, it just seems kind of unwieldy. I started this thing with little idea of how things would go, and in the early days my aesthetic was more "gonzo" than it seems to be now...
dannyno
  • 70. dannyno | 15/09/2020
I noted a reference to "slates" in the sleevenotes to Lie Dream of a Casino Soul, comment #47, which graduated to the notes.

Just to note traffic in the other direction. According to the Fall Online Gigography (http://thefall.org/gigography/gig81.html, at the Rafters gig in Manchester on 15 January 1981, Slates, Slags, Etc was introduced with these words:


This next track mistreats the lie of the Wigan Soul dream


Lie Dream debuted live towards the end of February 1981.
boo
  • 71. boo | 18/10/2020
'Technical college rejects in crappy coloured buildings' - St Helens '81.
dannyno
  • 72. dannyno | 18/10/2020
Paul Hanley, during one of Tim Burgess's Twitter listening parties, 18 Oct 2020:


The ‘Slates’ theory, that there are only a few original people and the rest are just carbon copies, went across a few different songs too.
#TimsTwitterListeningParty
9:18 PM · Oct 18, 2020
dannyno
  • 73. dannyno | 18/10/2020
dannyno
  • 74. dannyno | 26/03/2021
"Dead publishers sons"

So one question is, is the line related to the rest of the verse.

Another question is, who are we talking about?

And another question is, does it mean the son(s) of a dead publisher, or the dead son of a publisher.

January 1980 did see the death by suicide of Axel Springer Jnr, age 38.

Another son of a (music) publisher was Michael Cimino, the film director whose most recent film when this song came out, Heaven's Gate, proved a commercial failure.

But I can't link either to anything else in the lyrics.
bzfgt
  • 75. bzfgt (link) | 27/03/2021
Hmm, if we knew who it is, would it give us a clue to Mere Pseud Mag? Although that's an editor, not a publisher.

I should split the notes to "slates," "slags" etc...I'll get to it at some point. Right now it's a little unwieldy, as there's speculation about "slate" before I get to the meat of it which, I think, is Hanley's comments
dannyno
  • 76. dannyno | 27/03/2021
If we knew who it was (if it's anybody) I'm not sure it would be a clue to anything in particular!
MO
  • 77. MO | 17/04/2021
I have a couple of theories on the "tapes" side of the lyrics of this Fall classic.

Theory 1: as Steve has pointed out in his YMGTA post on The Legendary Chaos Tape / Live In London 1980, that release was specifically put out as a kind of counter to a burgeoning Fall bootleg trade that was going on in the early 80s. The pace that the group was introducing new material to their live sets meant they were always several steps ahead of the recorded output, and fans, cottoning on, had taken to recording gigs and distributing the new material.

X Moore's NME review of the Chaos Tape (which Steve's piece reproduces) includes an interview with MES that addresses this directly, Smith claiming the idea was to get the tape of the gig out quickly (the gig included early run-outs of much of the Slates material, including "Male Slags" as it was then called), before any potential bootleggers could profit:

"Like, that’s the idea of this, to break the backs of all these twats who tape new numbers at our gigs. Cos we play new stuff into our set quick it doesn’t take ’em long to realise they can tape a gig and put them out before the albums released.”

As it was, the Chaos Tape was not released until March 1982, 15 months after the gig it documents in December 1980 - and 11 months after the release of Slates.

Nevertheless, it is not a stretch to think of these bootleggers - be they genuine Fall fans or just mere profiteers - coming in for Smith's opprobrium as but one manifestation of the grey, parasitic copyists the song is aimed at. "Break the backs of all these twats" could even be a line from the song, and echoes the "Break the slates for Christ's sake".
MO
  • 78. MO | 17/04/2021
Theory 2: And this a kind of add-on or development of the previous. The line mentioning "The Beat and Wah! Heat" rung a bell, as they are two bands that were featured on the NME / Rough Trade C81 tape that was made available to readers of the NME in January '81. As noted here, the live version of Slags, Slates Etc. from Iceland 1981-09-12 adds mention of The Specials, who were also on C81.

C81 was famously the first of a series of promo tapes that NME were to offer over the next couple of decades. The 25 song tracklist featured bands from a range of independent labels, including Postcard, 2-Tone, Mute, and Stiff, but the bulk of those represented were on Rough Trade: the label The Fall were on at the time too, of course.

Why were The Fall not on C81? Was it put to Smith and he refused to be associated?

If you look at some of the lines that were added to the evolving Slags, Slates, Etc., it is interesting to note that the early version documented on the Live in London tape (from December '80, therefore before the NME C81 launch in Jan '81) does not have this mention of The Beat and Wah Heat, whereas the Slates recored version (released April '81) and later live versions do include it.

Additionally, there is a line in the live version from Iceland that comes right after the mention of The Beat and Wah Heat about "Cut out your coupons". This has to be a further clue re: C81, as it was necessary to collect tokens from successive issues of NME to submit with your £1.50 in order to get a copy of the tape.

Is the line "Rip-off bands ... with stuck up hair and shitty pants ... new beatniks with hoop shirts" referring to the kind of indie darlings compiled on C81? Is the "cold nearly old ska Jamaica dawn" referring to the then-waning 2-Tone movement?

As Simon Reynolds noted in Rip it Up and Start Again, C81 was intended as a kind of tribute to the independent music scene post-punk, but by the time it was released, it was documenting a dying movement - many of the bands represented (Scritti Politti, Orange Juice etc.) were by then embracing a shift to a "new pop". "Remember slates are always outta date"...

One other nice detail on this: the J-card of the C81 tape included a curious note on its guarantee of "optimum sound quality and of musical reproduction close to the master tape" - somewhat odd for a release of a bunch of scratchy indie music. And the cassette itself is labeled "STD EQ AND BIAS NO DOLBY". This sounds like it could be the source of the Slates sleeve note on Slags, Slates Etc.: "Full bias content guaranteed. Plagiarism infests the land."
bzfgt
  • 79. bzfgt (link) | 17/04/2021
Great comments, MO! I incorporated a bunch of that, although I have to come back and edit this into more manageable form I think...
dannyno
  • 80. dannyno | 17/04/2021
MO, comments #77, 78. <applause>
dannyno
  • 81. dannyno | 27/04/2021
"Dead publisher's sons"

connected to "Mere Pseud Mag Editor's father"?
dannyno
  • 82. dannyno | 27/04/2021
The NME of 17 January 1981 features an interview with Mikey Dread by Chris Salewicz, "The Dread Man Tells His Tale", pp.23, 53.

An extract, note use of "slates" in the wild (obviously MES' use of the term predates this interview, but the meaning is shared):


Working first in production at the Jamaican Broadcasting Corporation, Mikey soon rose to running his own John Peel-like nightly show, Dread At The Controls, acting as DJ in both the conventional radio manner and the reggae toasting sense over hte hardest, most obscure reggae sounds.

"I used to get slates of the rhythm tracks and play them on my shows. One I got hold of from Joe Gibbs was the slate of Trinity's 'Three Piece Suit' which I played with these two little girls, Althia and Donna, doing it - 'Uptown Top Rankin''. Straight to number one! The Trinity song was great too, though - the best thing he ever did. Nice rhythm track, rasta."
dannyno
  • 83. dannyno | 27/04/2021
"hte" should be "the" in the first paragraph, obviously.
dannyno
  • 84. dannyno | 27/04/2021
I've been listening to early 1981 bootleg recordings of this song, and they allow us to pin this down more precisely than MO's April 1981 date.

Remember C81 was launched with the 31 January issue of NME.

Rafters, 15 Jan 1981: no Wah! Heat etc.

University of East Anglia, 24 Jan 1981: no Wah! Heat etc.

Queen Mary College, 5 Feb 1981: no Wah! Heat etc.

St Helen's Technical College, 20 Feb 1981: Wah! Heat etc appear!

I'm missing some recordings, so the 20th Feb is not necessarily the first time Wah! Heat get into the lyrics. But we know it happened between 5th and 20th of Feb. I think that supports MO's theory 2.
bzfgt
  • 85. bzfgt (link) | 01/05/2021
82--yeah interesting, if records is meant then "slags" is kind of an outlier in the lyrics, unless that can also mean some kind of recording.... if "slags" meant 8-tracks we'd be getting somewhere...
Big Chief Mango Chutney XIV
  • 86. Big Chief Mango Chutney XIV | 28/08/2021
RY VII"Slates" is a term MES used to describe people who were grey, uniform and mundane, people without any inspiration or shred of individuality in their lives. Those who just accepted the status quo. Just like slate tiles, all grey and all the same.


Blank slates, perhaps? (I.e. blank canvasses) Apologies if that's already been suggested.
john
  • 87. john | 12/11/2021
I think MES says 'Specials pork pie hat meat' in the Rykjavik recording, pork pie hats being a ska/Two Tone fashion item.
john
  • 88. john | 12/11/2021
Some thoughts on C81: the cassette might have been 'launched' in January, but from memory and Wikpedia that only means it was first advertised and the first of the tokens which the buyer needed to collect appeared. I don't know at what point the full track listing was made public, and I received my copy around April 1981. My own feeling is that the fact that the bands were chosen because they were receiving favourable coverage in 'inkies' like the NME, and because their names rhyme.

Nothing to do with the lyrics, but the Blue Orchids, featuring Martin Bramah, were also on C81.
dannyno
  • 89. dannyno | 29/11/2021
john, comment #88.

The tracklisting was published in NME dated 31 January 1981.

https://dannyno.org.uk/c81/c81tracklist.jpg
GLochin
  • 90. GLochin | 19/12/2022
I always end up hearing "tapes" as short for tapeworms, ie leeches; & so the line becomes an indictment of the three undesirable elements in the audience: male slags, who only go to shows to get laid ("80% disco weekend mating audience"), slates who do what their told and just follow trends and don't think for themselves, & tapes who recognize the specialness of the Fall but try to feed off or gain some profit or advantage from the band, whether by association ("former friends suck on the Fall") or thru bootlegging (or even legit labels, prob could interpret as R Trade leeching off the band) (& thus we come round to the other connotation of 'tapes' as a recorded artifacts)

From this angle it then almost comes across as a rough MES equivalent of the parable of the sower for ppl who 'hear' the Fall but can't understand or recognize the message. (& hopefully the man isnt rolling in his grave from that last stretch
dannyno
  • 91. dannyno | 22/12/2022
Comment #90: that's a good interpretation, I like that.
dannyno
  • 92. dannyno | 22/12/2022
Although, what we don't seem to have noted explicitly here is the call back to New Puritan:


Male slags, male slates, famous apes



Bands send tapes to famous apes
for the record
  • 93. for the record | 22/03/2023
the "Male Sassenachs!" bit has gone from the transcription above but we know now it is "male sass-a-nah!" from the auction lyric sheet, an MES take on Jamaican Patois?
Mark Oliver
  • 94. Mark Oliver | 14/04/2023
Testing-uh
Mark Oliver
  • 95. Mark Oliver | 14/04/2023
Marc Riley has a show on BBC 6 Music..on Thurs, 13 April 2023, he was talking about Wah! Heat and Pete Wylie in his segment 'Parallel Universe', where he and Rob Hughes look back at a time via a single old music paper, in this case, NME from 17 Jan. 1981.
Marc referred to this use of Wah!'s name in the song and Wylie's reaction....(quote) ''...I do remember The Fall had a tune called, ermm..it was 'Slates..' ermm, which was on the, ermm, that E.P. but anyway, he said 'Male slates,' errr, he said 'Wah! Heat, The Beat' and I know that Pete pulled him up about it and said 'What you slagging us off for?' and he's going 'Noooo, noooo, I'm just, it's just a jooookke, mate, it's just a joooke', yeah, but at least Pete had the chops to front him up about it.''
I got the impression during this that Marc omitted the 'Slags' part of the title, possibly feeling uncomfortable with it in 2023. Although he doesn't mention it, the exchange very likely took place at one of the Fall's gigs in Eric's club, Liverpool.. if so, I would have been there.

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