The Classical

Lyrics

(1)

There is no culture is my brag, (2)
Your taste for bullshit reveals a lust for a form of office (3)
This is the home of the vain!
This is the home of the vain!
Where are the obligatory niggers? (4)
Hey there fuckface!
Hey there fuckface!
There are twelve people in the world
The rest are paste  (5)
This is the home of the vain!
This is the home of the vain!
I just left the Hotel Amnesia, I had to go there
Where it is I can't remember,
But now I can remember...now I can remember
Hafta! Hafta!                (6)
Message for ya! Message for ya!
Too much reliance on girl here  (7)
Behind every shell-actor
Fear and awe
Is raw power  (8)
Stormier, stormier
Too much romantic here
I destroy romantics, actors,  (9)
Kill it!
Kill it!
Kill it!
Kill it!
Kill it!    (10)
You won't find anything more ridiculous, than this new profile
razor unit, made with the highest British attention to the
wrong detail, become obsolete units surrounded by hail. (11)
The Classical!
The Classical! 
The Classical!  (12)
Hotel Aggro!
Message for ya! Message for ya!
The Classical! 
Parallax! (13)
One of the millennium of conspiracy,
Forever,
I know it means a lot of stomach gas, (14)
I know it means a lot of stomach gas
I've never felt better in my life
I've never felt better in my life
Parallax!
The Classical!
Stomach gas
I've never felt better in my life
I've never felt better in my life
Parallax!
Millennium of conspiracy
Play out Classical!
I've never felt better in my life
Better in my life  (15)

Notes

1. MES talks about the song in an interview:

"When we recorded that album we were sick of the music industry, the record was meant to be against that. It was our way of saying 'fuck off!' to those people. "The Classical" is the song that sums it all up, it's the anthem of the record. I figured: if you want to say it, you might as well do it in the first song. We were tired of the whole thing at the time, thought about packing it in. We were fed up with the whole thing. The ironic thing is that the record was intended as a piss off, but everyone loved it!" 

Many readers have noted that this song seems to be a bash at the BBC or some such thing. From the liner notes to Hex Enduction Hour: "Spite does not enter into this. But R. Castle in his uselessgoals h.q. shadowed by Parachute suite style youths, plus the canned response to C. James (recent tv) Cast a diff. hue to this tune." (Thanks to Zack)

Dan points out: Presumably "R. Castle" is Roy Castle, of the TV show "Record Breakers", and "C. James" is "Clive James", the writer and TV presenter.

Dan: Paul Hanley's book, Have a Bleedin Guess (p. 89), notes that these days the members of the group cannot agree on the particulars of the composition of this song. However, he records Steve Hanley saying:
 


Craig didn't write it all - he certainly didn't write the bass solo at the end. John Taylor wrote that for 'Planet Earth'.

"Planet Earth" was the debut single of Duran Duran (1981) and John Taylor, who is credited as a co-author of the song, was their bass player. 

^

2. Dan points to a passage from Jose Ortega y Gassett's The Revolt of the Masses (1930):

"'Is it not a sign of immense progress that the masses should have "ideas," that is to say, should be cultured? By no means. The "ideas" of the average man are not genuine ideas, nor is their possession culture. Whoever wishes to have ideas must first prepare himself to desire truth and to accept the rules of the game imposed by it. It is no use speaking of ideas when there is no acceptance of a higher authority to regulate them, a series of standards to which it is possible to appeal in a discussion. These standards are the principles on which culture rests. I am not concerned with the form they take. What I affirm is that there is no culture where there are no standards to which our fellow-man can have recourse. There is no culture where there are no principles of legality to which to appeal. There is no culture where there is no acceptance of certain final intellectual positions to which a dispute may be referred. There is no culture where economic relations are not subject to a regulating principle to protect interests involved. There is no culture where aesthetic controversy does not recognize the necessity of justifying the work of art.'

Now, that's not a 'brag,' but someone could pick up on that passage and decide, contrary to the intention, that actually they would affirm that there was no culture and a good thing too."

Dr. X O'Skeleton comments: "A few thoughts on the opening line. Its proud philistinism makes me think of the phrase 'When I hear the word culture, I reach for my revolver,' often attributed to the Nazi leadership, but actually from a play by Nazi playwright Hanns Johst. In the original, a character says 'When I hear the word culture, I release the safety on my Browning.' The phrase had been resurrected the previous year as the title of a Mission of Burma song ['That's When I Reach for My Revolver']."

In his talk on Hex Enduction Hour at an event called Alt-Classic Album Playback, editor John Doran of The Quietus  comments "I think it's clear that the protagonist is working on some kind of art or music program. The opening line for me feels like a sideswipe at talk show host Melvyn Bragg. He was the host of the South Bank Show at the time. I get the feeling this is the kind of show...that really got on Smith's nerves." The South Bank Show, which is still on the air, is, according to Wikipedia, an "arts magazine show" that "aims to bring both high art and popular culture to a mass audience."

^

3. From Austusbaejarbio: "Your lust for equality bullshit reveals a desire for a form of office."

^

4. This is probably the most controversial Fall lyric of all time. Whether or not MES’s use of this word is justified here, it does seem clear that he does not intend it to have straightforwardly racist connotations, and it is always important to remember that the narrator of a Fall song is rarely, if ever, a straightforward self-representation of Mark E Smith. On the other hand, it is not entirely clear how he does intend us to hear the line; while his intentions are not the only, and perhaps are not even the most, relevant consideration here, it is worth considering what they may have been.

This unfortunate lyric admittedly looks worse now than in 1982, since "nigger" has become a word that is pretty much forbidden in all contexts, to the point where I even hesitated to use it in this sentence (it strikes me as dishonest not to, given that it is already printed above). MES did comment on this in a 1983 interview, but unfortunately for those of us who want him to say something unequivocally anti-racist to balance this out, he just makes things worse:

"Well that song was written about a year ago, about what was happening then and what has resulted in the kind of music programmes you get on TV now...the sort of coziness of vanity, not vanity in a good way, not even vanity where you know what you're saying. "The Classical" was just like--you throw it around you know, the only thing is where is the classical. What I was really saying in that song was that things that have any real value about them will last through any time scale. But it sounds cheap to say it like that. There was stuff like 'obligatory niggers' and that, which has like come true, and every programme you see about young people has now got a black boy in it, I have to make a joke about that, I can't help it."

Naturally, he's asked about the Falklands next, in particular an interview with an Irish woman where he made several remarks about the war. He explains that he sounded very patriotic in this interview because he was goading the Irish interviewer, and adds that "no black man's going to come in my home and call me the oppressor, cause if I've got any call with the English working class...the English working class created this country so that those fuckers could come over here and complain about it, I have no guilt about them, it’s only the middle class and upper middle class who have any guilt about the blacks and Irish, do you know what I'm saying? and I don't like people pulling that on me...black people and Irish people come over here and think they're being oppressed, the English working class know that as a fact...Do you know what I mean, no black man's going to come over to me and say "You are the fuckin' oppressor," because I've never oppressed him, as far as I'm concerned he's oppressing me, because I have to watch his music on TV and I don't particularly like it, it's another way of looking at it..."

He follows up by complaining that the "Irish" interviewer should have noted "He was being very sarcastic" when quoting him. It may be the case that a similar note would apply here...not that these comments go down easy either way. But neither is it obvious that “sarcasm” is an apt term in this context. In his excellent talk on Hex Enduction Hour at an event called Alt-Classic Album Playback, editor John Doran of The Quietus points out that “It doesn’t read like sarcasm, it reads like saloon bar casual racism in cold light of day” (see comment 81 below for the video, the relevant remark is at 18:49). Doran seems to be suggesting that MES is trying to represent himself in a certain way—as working class and as, so to speak, authentic—but that this is done at the expense of black people; in other words, the lyric is not really a comment on racism at all, which would probably be the best we could hope for here, but an affectation that strikes a sour note. I encourage the reader to watch Doran’s talk and let him speak for himself, however. Doran is rather convincing, and in any case it is not my place to exculpate MES—even if I wanted to do so, he has not given me much to work with—so I must now let the matter stand with the texts we’ve been given, and let the readers of this site draw their own conclusions.

Apparently a British subsidiary of Motown expressed interest in the Fall a few years later and were sent a recording of, of all things, "The Classical." The story goes that the label ultimately demurred, proclaiming that they could see "no commercial potential in this band whatsoever." Here's Smith's version of the story:

"We were just fuckin' around," recalls Smith. "Then fuckin' Tamla
Motown steam in! You know... about time we had another white act,
ha ha! Dead funny. But they were pretty serious. I went to see them
and everything. They had a pretty good lad in London who was well
behind us. So they offered us a contract and this bloke in London
goes, Have you got any LPs? So I said, I'll get a copy of 'Hex
Enduction Hour' to you."

While the Fall brought the song back in 2002, the offending line stayed in the 1980s...

^ 

5. "Paste" here could be in the sense of imitation jewelry.

From "Fortress" on 9/12/1981 in Iceland: "There are twelve people in the world, the rest are slates!"

Clay perceptively points out that this could be an allusion to the Lamed Vavniks ("thirty-sixers") or Tzadiqim Nistarim ("hidden righteous"). This is a legend from the Babylonian Talmud (Wikipedia):

As a mystical concept, the number 36 is even more intriguing. It is said that at all times there are 36 special people in the world, and that were it not for them, all of them, if even one of them was missing, the world would come to an end. The two Hebrew letters for 36 are the lamed, which is 30, and the vav, which is 6. Therefore, these 36 are referred to as the Lamed-Vav Tzadikim. This widely-held belief, this most unusual Jewish concept is based on a Talmudic statement to the effect that in every generation 36 righteous "greet the Shechinah," the Divine Presence (Tractate Sanhedrin 97b; Tractate Sukkah 45b).

 

Paul Hanley in his book Have a Bleedin' Guess (p. 70):

"[T]he 'paste' theory was one of Mark's go-to theories which often popped up in other songs. Paste, in this context, is the substance that costume jewelry is made from, and as 'paste' was sometimes replaced by 'slate' live, this ties with the sentiment in 'Slates, Slags, Etc.' that the world is full of imitators of the truly talented."


 

At the NME awards in 2018, Brix gave a speech in a kind of tribute to MES. She proclaimed "Mark told me he believed there were only seven original people in the world, and that everyone else was a slate of one of them. Mark was absolutely one of the seven" (See "Slates, Slags, Etc." note 1).

This line may be inspired by a Captain Beefheart quote, "There are forty people in the world, and five of them are hamburgers."

Hexen Blumenthal has suggested that this in turn may be a parody of the "prevailing hippie astrology BS" of the era, as exemplified in the song "Zodiac" by Richie Havens:

There is a secret that has been kept from man 2,000 years
There is a secret that has been kept from man 2,000 years
And that secret is that there are only
twelve people on the earth at any given time
That there are only twelve people on the earth at any given time

And these people have been symbolized
Down through the ages of mankind, by many symbols...

...And these people are:
Aries, who is… I am, ain’t I?
Taurus, who is… I have, don’t I?
Gemini, who is… I think, I think…
etc.

See More Information below for the rest of the lyrics...

^

6. Colloquially "have to! have to!" I think. SteveQ associates this line with Nietzsche:  "I would like to see here the need for a short, snappy sound and Mark using and slightly bending an equally enigmatic phase from Also Sprach Zarathustra (which is referred to in 'Free Range,' although that refers to the Music by Strauss via 2001, A Space Odyssey). The line came to Nietzsche in a dream and so may not be relateable to any actual phrase or name: 'Alpa! cried I, who carries his ashes unto the mountain? Alpa! Alpa! who carries his ashes unto the mountain? " (From 'The Soothsayer'). I mention this line because it is remarkable fragment- for its vocal qualities - and could have lurked in Smith's notes waiting for the right moment..."

And Zack adds "SteveQ's note about the possible Nietzsche connection between 'The Classical' and 'Free Range' is interesting because the two songs have similar chord progressions, tempi and declamatory vocals. 'Free Range' is essentially a '90s update of 'The Classical.'"

^

7. Is "girl" just a generic term to mean, basically, "girls"?

^

8. It's worth noting here Raw Power, the third album by the Stooges, a band MES is known to have liked...

^

9."Romantic," as juxtaposed with "classical," possibly suggests Romanticism, a movement in the arts, literature, and philosophy that originated in the late 18th century, and emphasized the role of emotion and intuition in human life, and was saw nature as a source of inspiration and a kind of truth that exceeds the purely rational. In this sense it can be seen as a reaction to the classicism of the age of Enlightenment, which saw its roots in an ancient Greece that was thought to have placed reason at the center of human life. Many examples could be cited to trouble this neat distinction, but that is very broadly the picture. "Classical" and "Romantic" are often used as names for periods in Western Music, or what is known more broadly as "Classical Music." But note that an author MES admired, Wyndham Lewis, drew a distinction, in his writings, between "classical" and "romantic" art. Dan submits:

"I've been reading MES-favourite Wyndham Lewis' biographical Blasting and Bombardiering. There are repeated put-downs of the culturally 'romantic,' and then this passage (p250 of my edition, which is the 1967 revised second edition, republished in paperback in1982 by John Calder/Riverrun Press):

 

Wyndham LewisWhat I think history will say about the 'Men of 1914' is that they represent an attempt to get away from romantic art into classical art, away from political propaganda back into the detachment of true literature: just as in painting Picasso has represented a desire to terminate the Nineteenth Century alliance of painting and natural science. And what has happened - slowly - as a result of the War, is that artistic expression has slipped back again into political propaganda and romance, which go together. When you get one you get the other. The attempt at objectivity has failed. The subjectivity of the majority is back again...

Or from Time and Western Man (connecting the "romantic" to "advertisement" in a way you could argue this song hints at, sort of):
 


Romance, as currently used, then, denotes what is unreal or unlikely, or at all events not present , in contrast to what is scientifically true and accessible to the senses here and now. Or it is, in its purest expression, what partakes of the marvellous, the extreme, the unusual. That is why Advertisement (in a grotesque and inflated form) is a pure expression of the romantic mind. Indeed, there is nothing so 'romantic' as Advertisemen

 

^

10. From deruntergeher on the Fall Online Forum:

Adapted from a line in The Producers ? ( a film MES was a big fan of I think)

Max: Kill the actors!
Franz: Kill the actors? I can't kill the actors. I must destroy the actors.

On some live versions "kill it!" is preceded by "rub it out! rub it out! rub it out! rub it out!" (which is synonymous, in slang).

^

11. On live versions, variant lyrics often would appear at this point. One more or less typical example (from Austurbaejarbio, recorded in 1982): "Dear customer, prior to delivery, this fine Ford Kawasaki Excel Escort was given a thorough inspection by Fred here in the white coat...please note, um, the, um, coin-spots on the dashboard...please note the fuel exhaustion limit reader...please note the elephant house odor of the dashboard, and most importantly the axles and the hubs which are immune to snow, extreme heat, rain, hailstones, sleet, and HAIL! The Classical!"   

Harleyr perceptively remarks, "I've always taken 'hail' here to be a picturesque way of describing the nuggets of white polystyrene packaging that would probably surround said obsolete consumer products." And of course this provides, as above, a hinge back to the title phrase via another meaning of "hail."

Dan: Paul Hanley identifies the "profile razor" as a Wilkinson Sword disposable razor, "adverts for which were all over the TV at the time."
(Have a Bleedin Guess, p.97). 

^

12. Up to this point, the guitar plays a two-chord pattern over the bassline, which is four notes. From this point on, the changes played by the guitar match the bass riff.

^

13. The orange lyric book and the Lyrics Parade have "pole-axe," but a plethora of fans have insisted on "parallax" (see comments below, and also the discussion on the Fall online forum). I was long skeptical of this transcription, but Dan has turned up some passages in James Joyce's Ulysses that seem to explain its presence here:

-bloom She is rather lean.
- virag (Not unpleasantly.) Absolutely! Well observed and those pannier pockets of the skirt and slightly pegtop effect are devised to suggest bunchiness of hip. A new purchase at some monster sale for which a gull has been mulcted. Meretricious finery to deceive the eye. Observe the attention to details of dustspecks. Never put on you tomorrow what you can wear today Parallax! (With a nervous twitch of his head.) Did you hear my brain go snap? Pollysyllabax!
- bloom (An elbow resting in a hand, a forefinger against his cheek.) She seems sad.  

"virag" is Lipoti Virag Bloom, Leopold's grandfather.

The "attention to details of dustspecks" in close juxtaposition with the interjection of "parallax" seems to me to make a connection between this passage and the song rather likely. 

Some preceding passages:

Mr Bloom moved forward raising his troubled eyes. Think no more about that. After one. Time ball on the ballast office is down. Dunsink time. Fascinating little book that is of Sir Robert Ball’s. Parallax. I never exactly understood. There’s a priest. Could ask him. Par it’s Greek : parallel, parallax. Met him pikehoses she called it till I told her about the transmigration. O rocks! [....] Flattery where least expected. Nobleman proud to be descended from some king’s mistress. His foremother. Lay it on with a trowel. Cap in hand goes through the land. Not go in and blurt out what you know you’re not to : what’s parallax? Show this gentleman the door. [....] And on the highway of the clouds they come, muttering thunder of rebellion, the ghosts of beasts. Huuh! Hark! Huuh! Parallax stalks behind and goads them, the lancinating lightnings of whose brow are scorpions. [....] What is the parallax of the subsolar ecliptic of Aldebaran?

The now-discredited pole-axe (pollaxe) is a long-handled axe used in Medieval combat. Parallax is the apparent displacement of an object resulting from a shift in perspective, and is used by astronomers to measure distances. The Parallax View  is a 1974 movie starring Warren Beatty as an inquisitive reporter who gets into hot water investigating a senator's assassination, and, more recently (i.e. post-Hex Enduction Hour), a book by Slovenian philosopher Slavoj Žižek. 

^

14.  The Fall covered the Mason WIlliams instrumental "Classical Gas" twice in 2002, or at least Ben Pritchard strummed some of it. Craig Scanlon was reported to have also sometimes played the song; musically, "Classical Gas" bears no resemblance to "The Classical."  

^

15. Live versions often contain the interjection "Walks tall! Walks tall!" Thanks to Mark in the comments for clearing that up; the closest I could come was "Rock salt! Rock salt!"

^

SaveSave

More Information

The Classical: Fall Tracks A-Z

Classical Gas: Fall Tracks A-Z

Zodiac by Richie Havens:

 

There is a secret that has been kept from man 2,000 years
There is a secret that has been kept from man 2,000 years
And that secret is that there are only
twelve people on the earth at any given time
That there are only twelve people on the earth at any given time

And these people have been symbolized
Down through the ages of mankind, by many symbols

They were called:
Twelve tribes of Israel
Twelve sons of Jacob
Twelve gates of Heaven
Twelve inches in a foot
Twelve months to the year
Twelve men on the jury
Twelve days of Christmas
Twelve disciples of Jesus Christ
Twelve manners of fruit on the tree by the side of the river
Good for the healing of all nations
Good for the healing of all nations

And these people are
And these people are:
Aries, who is… I am, ain’t I?
Taurus, who is… I have, don’t I?
Gemini, who is… I think, I think…
I think so much I wish I could stop thinking
Cancer, who is… I feel, I feel,
and there are no words to describe how I feel
Leo, who is… I will, o’er my will
Virgo, who is… I analyze, I analyze
Libra, who is… I balance, I balance, I balance
between those who know and those who do not know
Scorpio, who is… I desire, I desire, I desire…
Sagittarius, who is… I see, I see… I see so much in
what I’m doing I cannot finish what I’m doing
Capricorn, who is… I use, I use… I use all of
my experience in order to survive
Aquarius, who is… I know, I know…
why do I know when no one around me knows what I know
Pisces, who is… I believe, I believe…
or there is nothing for me to believe in

These are the twelve people who inherit the earth
You are one of them and there are only eleven others
And if you get to know the eleven others
You will be able to get along with everyone all over the world…
all over the world

 

Comments (154)

dannyno
  • 1. dannyno | 03/06/2013
"I just left the Hotel Amnesia, I had to go there
Where it is I can't remember,
But now I can remember...now I can remember"

Isn't this often taken to be a reference to the lyrics of The Eagles' Hotel California?:

"Last thing I remember, I was
Running for the door
I had to find the passage back
To the place I was before"
conrad
  • 2. conrad | 23/06/2013
it's 'paralax ("a displacement or difference in the apparent position of an object viewed along two different lines of sight...measured by the angle or semi-angle"),' not 'poleax.' I'm pretty sure there's no such word as 'poleax.'
John
  • 3. John | 02/08/2013
Conrad said it. I hate the poleax interpretation. It's totally parallax. A poleaxe is a type of military weapon. Add the e and spellcheck is happy.
bzfgt
  • 4. bzfgt | 02/08/2013
I'll listen again, I thought "parallax" when I was first hearing the song but the Lyrics Parade convinced me otherwise. I'll listen again when I get a chance.

As John points out, "poleaxe" is definitely a word.
Colin
  • 5. Colin | 22/10/2013
It's parallax.
Martin
  • 6. Martin | 29/10/2013
It's definitely "parallax" on the first recorded performance of the song (7 December 1981).
Joseph Mullaney
  • 7. Joseph Mullaney | 02/06/2014
I've always heard it as `form of office'.
Joseph Mullaney
  • 8. Joseph Mullaney | 02/06/2014
Should be:

Too much reliance on girl here
Behind every shell-actor
(overdubbed voice: `queer and deformed')
Is raw power, snobbier, snobbier

I also hear `in home obsolete units, surrounded by hail' rather than `become obsolete...'
bzfgt
  • 9. bzfgt | 15/06/2014
Yes, good corrections. "Form of office" is very clear on some live ones.

Can someone tells me what he says repeatedly at the end of live versions? It sounds like "rock salt, rock salt!" but sometimes seems to be not exactly that.
Mark
  • 10. Mark | 16/06/2014
bzfgt: I hear "Walks tall! Walks tall!".
bzfgt
  • 11. bzfgt | 24/06/2014
Outstanding! I'm quite sure that's it!
dannyno
  • 12. dannyno | 03/07/2014
"Too much reliance on girl here
On girls here, behind every shell-actor"

On the Hex version, at any rate, there's only one "on girls here" at that point.
Zack
  • 13. Zack | 03/11/2014
The Mick Middles book contains the more mundane truth behind the Fall/Motown story, but I'm glad the internet continues to "print the legend."
bzfgt
  • 14. bzfgt | 08/11/2014
All Middles says about it is that it was a British subsidiary of Motown, which is what I have in the note. He doesn't say one thing or another about why they didn't sign the Fall.

Hanley in his book says it was because of lack of commercial viability, but he doesn't contradict the story that they were sent Hex, and I haven't seen anyone deny this, so what is the legend exactly?

Or do you mean elsewhere on the internet? I took you to mean my note, but if that isn't what you mean then never mind...
Jill N
  • 15. Jill N | 20/06/2015
Ha ha! I can actually add info I don't see provided here....a first: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071970/?ref_=nv_sr_2

The Parallax View. Warren Beatty. Crazy paranoid (and rightly-so) guy sees something he shouldn't have....
Jill N
  • 16. Jill N | 20/06/2015
NEVER MIND!!! I missed note 6. DUH!
bzfgt
  • 17. bzfgt | 17/07/2015
Don't be discouraged, everyone comes up with something eventually, there's so much going on...
SteveQ
  • 18. SteveQ (link) | 24/09/2015
Re the very cryptic "Hafta, Hafta". I would like to see here the need for a short, snappy sound and Mark using and slightly bending an equally enigmatic phase from Thus Sprach Zarathustra (as was referred to in "Free Range" - although that refers to the Music by Strauss via 2001, A Space Odyssey). The line came to Nietzsche in a dream and so may not be relateable to any actual phrase or name:
"Alpa! cried I, who carries his ashes unto the mountain? Alpa! Alpa! who carries his ashes unto the mountain? "
(From "The Soothsayer").

I mention this line because it is remarkable fragment- for its vocal qualities - and could have lurked in Smith's notes waiting for the right moment...
clay
  • 19. clay | 12/11/2015
Re. footnote 3 ('there are 12 people in the world/the rest are paste'): this line seems, to me, to be highly suggestive of the mystical Jewish idea of the Tzadikim Nistarim.

From Wikipedia: "It is said that at all times there are 36 special people in the world, and that were it not for them, all of them, if even one of them was missing, the world would come to an end." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzadikim_Nistarim)

Jorge Luis Borges refers to this idea in either a short story or one of his essays (I can't remember which), which is where I first heard about it. If it was something that had been translated at the time, it seems possible that MES would have read it, as Borges was world-famous by the early 80s, and his writing seems like something MES would have enjoyed, given what I know about his literary proclivities.

Obviously this is all highly speculative, and even if it were true I don't think it would really help with a broader interpretation of "The Classical", which has always seemed to me to be the one song on Hex that isn't really about anything...
bzfgt
  • 20. bzfgt | 15/11/2015
SteveQ: excellent stuff I added that to the note. I don't know if you're thinking this but I also assume it's a colloquial "have to, have to!" which I always thought too obvious to mention but I should actually mention it maybe...
bzfgt
  • 21. bzfgt | 15/11/2015
Clay, wow! You're right, I never thought of that! I've always heard them called "Lamed Vavnik" (which just means, basically, "thirtysix-sters").
harleyr
  • 22. harleyr | 04/05/2016
"obsolete units surrounded by hail" - I've always taken 'hail' here to be a picturesque way of describing the nuggets of white polystyrene packaging that would probably surround said obsolete consumer products.
dannyno
  • 23. dannyno | 25/06/2016
"Paste": do we need to say that the reference here is to glass-imitation jewels?
dannyno
  • 24. dannyno | 25/06/2016
"Millennium" has two "n"s.
Zack
  • 25. Zack | 28/06/2016
Hex liner notes re: "The Classical":

"Spite does not enter into this. But R. Castle in his uselessgoals h.q. shadowed by Parachute suite style youths, plus the canned response to C. James (recent tv) Cast a diff. hue to this tune."

Anyone?
bzfgt
  • 26. bzfgt | 29/06/2016
Yes, Dan, we do. I had not thought of that at all but now you say it it seems very likely the correct connotation, so I'd say it's precisely the sort of thing we need mention.
bzfgt
  • 27. bzfgt | 29/06/2016
Zack: Not I.
dannyno
  • 28. dannyno | 02/07/2016
Zack: presumably "R. Castle" is Roy Castle, of the TV show "Record Breakers", and "C. James" is "Clive James", the writer and TV presenter.
M.S. Pierce
  • 29. M.S. Pierce | 08/10/2016
"Parallax"? "Poleaxe"? I don't hear either of those.

I have always heard "Prolapse", which is found in at least two other Fall songs.
bzfgt
  • 30. bzfgt | 15/10/2016
Just only today I was thinking "Now I think it really sounds like 'Poleaxe,' that seems to make more sense as he has just been yelling 'Kill it!', and it's in MES's own damn lyrics book...how did I ever get talked into 'Parallax'??" And now this....someone needs to invent technology that can detect exact phonemes and I can put in the exact phonetic thing in these cases. In any case "Prolapse" will be considered and may eventually unseat the others...I think I should revert this back to the Lyrics Book though, if anything.
Zack
  • 31. Zack | 03/12/2016
SteveQ's note about the possible Nietzsche connection between "The Classical" and "Free Range" is interesting because the two songs have similar chord progressions, tempi and declamatory vocals. "Free Range" is essentially a '90s update of "The Classical".
SkrikingFucker
  • 32. SkrikingFucker | 01/02/2017
I think I can shed some new light on the "obligatory niggers" line...

I found a three hour interview with MES right around the time he finished Hex. Like, the day after. MES mentions the use of the N word, and the way he explains it is that he wanted to use the vernacular of the type of talk he heard in pubs. The fact people actually used that word so casually sitting around having a pint. And he wanted to shock all the other bands around at the time that he saw as posturing.

My memory is a bit hazy tbh, but the interview is amazing. Pre Brix, pre speed addled rants, pre bitterness. The podcast was by a guy called bobcast, search and you'll find it there.
bzfgt
  • 33. bzfgt | 11/02/2017
SF, do you have any idea where in the interview this appears? That is one horking long interview...
bzfgt
  • 34. bzfgt | 11/02/2017
I'm almost 20 minutes into the interview. If MES explicitly addresses this line, that is huge, considering all the debate about it. But I'm flagging here, does anyone by chance actually want to listen to this thing? If so I would be enormously grateful.
dannyno
  • 35. dannyno | 11/02/2017
He addresses the "issue" in the Allied Propaganda interview here: http://thefall.org/news/pics/83aug-sep_alliedprop/83aug-sep_alliedprop.html

It's still nonsense.
MarkC
  • 36. MarkC | 11/02/2017
I'd thought it was prolapse since I first heard it
bzfgt
  • 37. bzfgt | 18/02/2017
It's worse than nonsense, it makes me much less forgiving about it since his comments there about "black boys" are just as bad as--arguably worse than--the lyric itself.
bzfgt
  • 38. bzfgt | 18/02/2017
I suppose I should acknowledge that abominable interview in my notes. I hope I don't scare any newbie S1Ws off the Fall.
bzfgt
  • 39. bzfgt | 18/02/2017
God, the self-satisfied "come true," as though MES has had a prophetic vision of "black boys" on television...this is him at his worst, and I'm usually pretty liberal in my attitudes toward his interviews...some of my best friends are MES's...I mean, not actual MES's...
bzfgt
  • 40. bzfgt | 18/02/2017
Anyone who wants to complain that MES used to be a lucid interview and now he just rants should memorize that interview...
bzfgt
  • 41. bzfgt | 18/02/2017
"Prolapse" is good. I'm still not 100% convinced it is not "pole-axe." For one thing it'd make more sense, he's yelling "kill it!" and a pole-axe is a weapon, whereas "parallax" and "prolapse" are non sequitur...
dannyno
  • 42. dannyno | 18/02/2017
bzfgt: I think a hard line is necessary on the "obligatory" line. It's been much discussed on the FOF, and I've certainly been willing to criticise on this point - it may be intended as an attack on tokenism, but it's unsubtle and misdirected and inevitably comes across as racist, especially in the light of the quotes above. However, it seems fair to observe that although MES is being radically anti-social here and in the interview cited, he has made anti-fascist and anti-racist statements at other times and over a long time period (including critiquing Morrissey's National Front Disco)), and also made plain his love for various "black" music - reggae, blues and jazz. Big Youth, Bo Diddley and so on. We can judge his record as a whole, I think. But that doesn't excuse the drivel, whatever motivated it.
bzfgt
  • 43. bzfgt | 18/02/2017
Absolutely, Dan. I think his heart is in the right place in ways, and in the wrong place in others, and the two are intertwined in a complicated way that I could never disentangle. I'm not really offended by him and he is funny, but he does say shit one should not say. It should be noted that he is talking about saying things to wind up another interviewer in this same interview and then piles on a bunch more, so that is certainly a clue as to his intentions. But it's also too convenient a "get out of jail free" card and is like a blanket pass to say anything he wants!
Martin
  • 44. Martin | 04/03/2017
A brief note on MES's use of the word "black" (as for people, obviously). In The Fall's cover of The Searchers' Popcorn Double Feature we hear the words "That man is your teacher/No need to be alarmed/Not much". The original had "Black man is your teacher..."

There's a short discussion about the original lyrics here:

http://www.rickresource.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8481

Two things are possible here. One, that MES misheard "black" for "that" and sang it thus in the cover version. Two, that he understood the connotations of the word "black" and therefore changed it for the innofensive word "that". Maybe - or maybe not, I'm just putting this there for the track record, as it were - this sheds a little more light on MES's (non)racist views.
Martin
  • 45. Martin | 04/03/2017
I should have said connotations of the word 'black' in this context; I don't think the word "black" in itself causes offence.
Martin
  • 46. Martin | 05/03/2017
And neither is "black" "nigger"...if you see what I mean!
bzfgt
  • 47. bzfgt (link) | 19/03/2017
I get it, he shies away from "black" but loves to say the 'N' word which I will not even deign to print.

Seriously though, that is interesting in its own right--sometimes he changes the most obvious lyrics, like "help me clear this trash" in "Junkman," which winds up "help me clear this track" and I think even something else the next time through. If there was ever a word not to mishear--it's about a junkman, and it rhymes with "ash"...and he does it to much for it to be unintentional all the time. But sometimes surely it is. You see why I don't annotate covers?
bzfgt
  • 48. bzfgt (link) | 19/03/2017
Despite what the lyric pages say, I just listened to the Searchers' song and they clearly seem to say "blind man is your teacher."
martin
  • 49. martin | 20/03/2017
Yes, that's sort of confirmed by this video and accompanying lyrics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaLfddXXHH4
Itchload
  • 50. Itchload | 28/03/2017
It's also probably worth noting that when MES resurrected The Classical in 2002, 2003 or so, he neglected to sing the "obligatory" line.

Found the "podomatic" interview, MES discusses his use of the word at 1hr 03 minutes. https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/bobcast/episodes/2016-04-14T14_40_57-07_00
bzfgt
  • 51. bzfgt (link) | 01/04/2017
Thanks Itchload, I am very surprised that I didn't mention the omission since I knew that.
dannyno
  • 52. dannyno | 09/04/2017
"There is no culture is my brag"

I've been thinking about unpacking this a bit. But "no culture" as an assertion of one kind or another is common.

For example, from Jose Ortega Y Gasset's "The Revolt of the Masses" (1960):


Is it not a sign of immense progress that the masses should have "ideas," that is to say, should be cultured? By no means. The "ideas" of the average man are not genuine ideas, nor is their possession culture. Whoever wishes to have ideas must first prepare himself to desire truth and to accept the rules of the game imposed by it. It is no use speaking of ideas when there is no acceptance of a higher authority to regulate them, a series of standards to which it is possible to appeal in a discussion. These standards are the principles on which culture rests. I am not concerned with the form they take. What I affirm is that there is no culture where there are no standards to which our fellow-man can have recourse. There is no culture where there are no principles of legality to which to appeal. There is no culture where there is no acceptance of certain final intellectual positions to which a dispute may be referred. There is no culture where economic relations are not subject to a regulating principle to protect interests involved. There is no culture where aesthetic controversy does not recognize the necessity of justifying the work of art.


Now, that's not a "brag", but someone could pick up on that passage and decide, contrary to the intention, that actually they would affirm that there was no culture and a good thing too.
dannyno
  • 53. dannyno | 09/04/2017
The date given for "The Revolt of the Masses" in post 52 should be 1930, not 1960, of course.
bzfgt
  • 54. bzfgt (link) | 06/05/2017
Well, that's a dandy reference right there. I'm not aware offhand of any "no culture" passages but that one is pretty apposite.
bzfgt
  • 55. bzfgt (link) | 06/05/2017
I just realized I have things like "MES says in an interview" where "interview" is a hotlink, and no other information is given. When I come across these I need to see if the link is live, and if so give more information so that when it dies, someone will at least know where to look if they want to track it down....

Comment 29 demonstrates that this "parallax" thing is still a live issue. I still think "pole-axe" is most likely, as it makes the most sense...
dannyno
  • 56. dannyno | 30/05/2017
Note 9 typo: "Enductiuon"
dannyno
  • 57. dannyno | 30/05/2017
Note 9: "Parallax"

I can't believe I can be the first person to point this out, but it appears I am.

MES's interest in James Joyce has been documented. And in Joyce's "Ulysses", 'parallax' crops up a few times (in its astronomical sense, I think).


Mr Bloom moved forward raising his troubled eyes. Think no more about that. After one. Time ball on the ballast office is down. Dunsink time. Fascinating little book that is of Sir Robert Ball’s. Parallax. I never exactly understood. There’s a priest. Could ask him. Par it’s Greek : parallel, parallax. Met him pikehoses she called it till I told her about the transmigration. O rocks!



Flattery where least expected. Nobleman proud to be descended from some king’s mistress. His foremother. Lay it on with a trowel. Cap in hand goes through the land. Not go in and blurt out what you know you’re not to : what’s parallax? Show this gentleman the door.



And on the highway of the clouds they come, muttering thunder of rebellion, the ghosts of beasts. Huuh! Hark! Huuh! Parallax stalks behind and goads them, the lancinating lightnings of whose brow are scorpions.



What is the parallax of the subsolar ecliptic of Aldebaran?



- bloom
She is rather lean.
- virag
(Not unpleasantly.) Absolutely! Well observed and those pannier pockets of the skirt and slightly pegtop effect are devised to suggest bunchiness of hip. A new purchase at some monster sale for which a gull has been mulcted. Meretricious finery to deceive the eye. Observe the attention to details of dustspecks. Never put on you tomorrow what you can wear today Parallax! (With a nervous twitch of his head.) Did you hear my brain go snap? Pollysyllabax!
- bloom
(An elbow resting in a hand, a forefinger against his cheek.) She seems sad.


Virag is Lipoti Virag Bloom, Leopold's grandfather. His exclamation of "parallax" seems to be mirrored by MES's exclamation in "The Classical", does it not?

and finally...


Meditations of evolution increasingly vaster : of the moon invisible in incipent lunation, approaching perigee : of the infinite lattiginous scintillating uncondensed milky way, discernible by daylight by an observer placed at the lower end of a cylindrical vertical shaft 5000 ft deep sunk from the surface towards the centre of the earth : of Sirius (alpha in Canis Major) 10 lightyears (57, 000, 000, 000, 000 miles) distant and in volume 900 times the dimension of our planet : of Arcturus : of the precession of equinoxes : of Orion with belt and sextuple sun theta and nebula in which 100 of our solar systems could be contained : of moribund and of nascent new stars such as Nova in 1901 : of our system plunging towards the constellation of Hercules : of the parallax or parallactic drift of socalled fixed stars, in reality evermoving from immeasurably remote eons to infinitely remote futures in comparison with which the years, threscore and ten, of allotted human life formed a parenthesis of infinitesimal brevity.


I think the Virag dialogue reads a bit like a MES lyric, and the "Parallax!" exclamation is very suggestive of an influence at work. But your mileage may vary - and this is some distance from being completely satisfyingly convincing.
AJ
  • 58. AJ | 23/06/2017
I hear the 'parralax/poleaxe' line as 'prolapse'. I can't hear it as anything else, and the idea of MES exclaiming 'prolapse!' separate to the other lines always gives me a chuckle.
dannyno
  • 59. dannyno | 23/06/2017
"Your taste for bullshit reveals a lust for a form of office"

The Austurbæjarbíó version has:


Your lust for equality bullshit reveals a desire for a form of office
bzfgt
  • 60. bzfgt (link) | 06/07/2017
I finally put a note in saying I wasn't convinced by "parallax," and pining for the days of "pole-axe"...and a minute later I came across your comment. Not a minute too soon, you've at last convinced me of "parallax"...the "attention to detail" puts it over the top.
bzfgt
  • 61. bzfgt (link) | 06/07/2017
OK, I read the rest of your comment. I am in fact convinced; and, although I didn't include the passage after the key quote, like you I find it very MESian, and to my mind it also constitutes evidence, albeit too indirect to include in my note (the patience required for the rest of your Joyce stuff seems to be that of the comment-reader looking for more, rather than the reader of the notes looking for clarity in a hurry).
Adorno
  • 62. Adorno | 23/09/2017
I though I eraf somewhere that "hafta" referee to disabled or mobility impaired people (etc), whom you "have to" give up your seat to on a bus.
bzfgt
  • 63. bzfgt (link) | 11/11/2017
Interesting, Teddy; if you remember where you erafed it, that would be great intel.
Chris Cohen
  • 64. Chris Cohen | 22/02/2018
On the album I think that the lyrics are "perform all of this" instead of "for a form of office".
bzfgt
  • 65. bzfgt (link) | 24/02/2018
Chris, I hope so; I've always hated and feared "form of office." It's the perfect example of a confounding lyric that just has to be wrong...not that I can't make sense of it, but it doesn't sit right.

But I heard that last week when I was checking. I'll look in to it again though.
bzfgt
  • 66. bzfgt (link) | 24/02/2018
There is a typewritten and incomplete set of lyrics in the orange book, and there is a typed transcription. The latter has "form of office." Unfortunately, it has become clear that a lyric appearing in transcribed form in the lyrics books means next to nothing. I am going to listen to it now...
bzfgt
  • 67. bzfgt (link) | 24/02/2018
It is "perform all of this." Eureka!!!!!!!!!

Probably. I'll listen a few more times. To be honest though it is clearly NOT "office," there are too many syllables. Beyond that I'm not entirely sure at the moment.
bzfgt
  • 68. bzfgt (link) | 24/02/2018
Fuck. Austurbaejarbio is crystal clear with "a form of office." I'm at sea here, I need a few other people to listen to the Hex version. I don't know what I think now.
Joseph Mullaney
  • 69. Joseph Mullaney | 25/02/2018
I'm positive that it is `form of office'. Meaning, some kind of official position or job.
Squeller
  • 70. Squeller | 28/02/2018
What's wrong with "form of office"? Institutional power is marked by bullshit. The addressee will say anything he needs to climb the ladder. It's a very straightforward line.
Squeller
  • 71. Squeller | 28/02/2018
Also, how is "a lust for perform all of this" better? It's nonsense, along with absurdly placing the stress on a preposition.
Squeller
  • 72. Squeller | 28/02/2018
Oh, seems that I slightly misunderstood the claim. Not that "a lust perform all of this" is any more meaningful.
Squeller
  • 73. Squeller | 28/02/2018
I just realized that my "climb the ladder" phrase is evocative of corporate culture, which would indicate a very silly reading of the word "office". I intended to refer to political power.
bzfgt
  • 74. bzfgt (link) | 10/03/2018
Yeah, "form of office" makes sense but "form" is superfluous, why not "lust for office"? "Form of office" arguably makes too much sense...
Squeller
  • 75. Squeller | 13/03/2018
The addressee doesn't care which office he gets as long as he can have one. "Form" emphasizes his opportunism; "a lust for office" leaves room for him to be pursuing a specific office, perhaps in service of some long-term goal, but the willfully vague "a form of office" deliberately casts the net too wide to allow for any real principles behind his drive. Non-specificity is explicitly specified. The word is a perfect articulation of the character's sheer greed.
bzfgt
  • 76. bzfgt (link) | 21/03/2018
I don't know that it's a particularly "perfect" articulation. The meaning of "form" in that context seems a little vague and imprecise. "Any form of office" might be more what you're saying...
Dr X O'Skeleton
  • 77. Dr X O'Skeleton | 29/03/2018
A few thoughts on the opening line. Its proud philistinism makes me think of the phrase "When I hear the word culture, I reach for my revolver," often attributed to the Nazi leadership, but actually from a play by Nazi playwright Hanns Johst. In the original, a character says "When I hear the word culture, I release the safety [catch] on my Browning." The phrase had been resurrected the previous year as the title of a Mission of Burma song.
Kettlelicker
  • 78. Kettlelicker | 23/09/2018
A general point I've made before about 'the N word/nigger' - its possible that we have taken a mistaken approach to this by getting to the state where no non-black person is 'allowed' to say it. Reason being that it keeps the word up as a taboo word that continues its nasty aggressive power. So that when a racist uses it in a deliberately aggressive way the word has a lot of hurtful emotional power in it. It's like keeping a big sword sharpened for the racists to use in a violent way.

On the other hand if we look at the word 'queer' for a homosexual or the word 'mick' to mean an Irish Catholic...both of these have become pretty weak now because the use of them become more and more wide spread, beyond people using them in deliberately offensive ways. The people in that group used it themselves and then it spread to culture in general. For example, my grandfather, an Irish catholic, used to call me 'mick' when i had done something he found annoying. By doing that his generation weakened the power of the originally bigoted and offensive word, to the point that is become almost a cute thing.

It sounds like a pretty radical thing to say now that the word ‘nigger’ could lose its power in the same way, but why not? If it spread to people in general saying it, the way ‘queer’ and ‘mick’ and other words have, then it probably would lose a lot of its aggressive power, become more and more a weak thing with not much energy to offend… so depriving actual racists of the sharpened sword of that word. Would'nt that be a better approach than what we have now?
dannyno
  • 79. dannyno | 24/09/2018
No, I don't agree, and I wonder why people are so keen to see its return to common use. And I don't think "queer" let alone "mick" have really spread to mainstream culture in general so much either. Use either as a form of abuse and it is still considered an attack, and I don't see any evidence that it would be taken more lightly these days.

The "desensitisation" argument was discussed a bit on the FOF here: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/thefall/the-n-word-t37800-s78.html

I see no evidence that the repression of insulting words makes them more powerful. After all, these words got their power in the first place from their daily ruse as dehumanising insults.
edgrge
  • 80. edgrge | 19/11/2018
@Clay #19 -- Interesting, because if you crudely translate the number 12 using that same system you get, "Yud" (10) and "Bet" (2), almost like "You'd bet"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gematria
dannyno
  • 81. dannyno | 20/11/2018
John Doran, in a talk about Hex (, suggests that "there is no culture is my brag" might refer in some way to Melvyn Bragg, presenter of the long-running TV arts programme, The South Bank Show
bzfgt
  • 82. bzfgt (link) | 01/12/2018
Kettlelicker, thanks for your thoughtful comment; however, if we want to debate this further might I suggest we move that particular debate to the FOF? I'm not bothered to have your comment, which I appreciate, here at all, it's just that as we proceed, I do not want this to turn in to a big debate on the 'N' here in the comments so if it needs to do that, let's let it do it elsewhere...
bzfgt
  • 83. bzfgt (link) | 01/12/2018
Dan, if you don't recall the time at which he makes this comment, do you remember in, so to speak, a quick and dirty way what his rationale is, if there is one? I'll try to watch that when I get a chance but that time is not now...
bzfgt
  • 84. bzfgt (link) | 01/12/2018
Never mind, I'm watching. It's funny to hear him say he "rips [us] off mercilessly" but he does a great job there, the Classical is the last thing I'd want to give a talk about but he meets it head on....
bzfgt
  • 85. bzfgt (link) | 01/12/2018
I updated note 4; I wish I could just ignore that lyric, that we all could. Anyway Doran's talk is really good, I incorporated a couple things (the Bragg thing too).
bzfgt
  • 86. bzfgt (link) | 01/12/2018
I need to do more with this but my computer is dying and I have to constantly save my work (I lose my clipboard when it reboots). Fuck, I can't afford another computer, so the site may go to shit for a while.
Werner Blokbuster
  • 87. Werner Blokbuster | 04/01/2019
I hear "too much reliance on dole here" (not girls) and "the fear and the awe" (not queer and deformed). That said, thirty years of listening to this have probably ingrained my first impression to the point I couldn't hear anything else if I tried...
dannyno
  • 88. dannyno | 19/01/2019
Comment #87, Werner Blokbuster: Just listened: I think it's plainly not "dole". But it is "girl", singular. Which is also what the Orange lyrics book has, for what that's worth.

But you are I think right that it's the very religious-esque sentiment "the fear and the awe", not "queer and deformed". That bit is missing from the Orange book.
bzfgt
  • 89. bzfgt (link) | 26/01/2019
Dole would be what you'd expect, I will compare with live version or two
bzfgt
  • 90. bzfgt (link) | 26/01/2019
"Queer and deformed" was in brackets anyway as a placeholder, so cool...

OK that line not there at all on Austurbaejarbio, I'll go back to the studio version and see what it sounds like to me. I don't want to listen to 12 live versions but if anyone comes across the line on a live version, let me know.
bzfgt
  • 91. bzfgt (link) | 26/01/2019
Fuck, I think it is "dole" but it's close.
bzfgt
  • 92. bzfgt (link) | 26/01/2019
Damn it, it sounds that way to me but it's too significant a substitution to take lightly. I am putting it for now, and I'm going to slow it down and listen...
bzfgt
  • 93. bzfgt (link) | 26/01/2019
OK I slowed it down, and the best I can do is say to me it's 52% "dole" and 48% "girl." I'm changing it back to "girl" because the change is too momentous in terms of meaning and "girl" does less harm if it's wrong then "dole" does (because it fits with the context in a way that doesn't change or clash with anything around it). I'm going to put a note, though.
bzfgt
  • 94. bzfgt (link) | 26/01/2019
I'm still not convinced it's not "pole-ax"
bzfgt
  • 95. bzfgt (link) | 26/01/2019
Dan, if you look again you'll find that the orange book has both.

Oh shit, In a Hole clearly has "girl." I'm glad I didn't change it, actually now I think I'll erase the note...
bzfgt
  • 96. bzfgt (link) | 26/01/2019
Too much work! I just replaced it with a stupid note that says nothing, in effect. Ha. Anyway I didn't want to bring "dole" in to muddy the waters now that it seems clear on another version, but of course "dole" is still here in the comments, which is just the right amount of emphasis I think..."fear and awe" is in.
Ian Forth
  • 97. Ian Forth (link) | 01/02/2019
I wouldn't get so stressed about the "n" word lyric. I think the trap is to think 1982 and 2019 are the same. They're not. Or that US and UK cultures are identical. They're not.

I'll give one concrete example as to how the "n" word sat in the populist culture of 1982. The best selling crime novel of all time is "And Then There Were None" by Agatha Christe. That's the title under which it was always published in the US from 1940 onwards. But in the UK the book was sold under the title "Ten Little Niggers" until 1985.

So, in other words you could walk into any high street anywhere, saunter into a W H Smith and pick up a copy of this book (it's never been out of print and is in fact the sixth biggest selling book of all time) with its offensive title in place for fully 3 years after Hex Enduction Hour came out. And you could go into secondhand bookshops up until quite recently and find a copy for sale.

Having grown up in the England in the 70s and 80s I can guarantee that the word was in regular use. While it was starting to elicit sharp winces, it did not have remotely the same freight of meaning in the UK as it did in the US. For some of the older, especially the working class, generation it was for them almost interchangeable with 'black'.

MES's response that the phrase he used was merely channeling what you'd hear in the average pub is in fact about right. And, of course, he was contrasting that with the media outrage and chattering class such a phrase produces. BAU for him. By the 2000s the world's changed and he doesn't use the anachronism any more. Sits fine with me.
dannyno
  • 98. dannyno | 01/02/2019
Comment #97. I don't accept this line of argument at all, because it's incoherent. If racial insults were common - and they were - why on earth would the media (except for the publishers of Agatha Christie, apparently) or "chattering class" be outraged by it's use by MES? What the point of making such a contrast? And of course, apart from one or two isolated challenges at the time, no review of the album in any of the music weeklies of the time even mentioned the "n" word. So it didn't even succeed in causing outrage at the time. So he failed, if that was his intention.

The common usage of racial insults at the time is exactly the problem with the use of this word in this song.
Ian Forth
  • 99. Ian Forth | 02/02/2019
I find this logic equally incoherent I'm afraid. I'm in fact not putting forward an 'argument'. I'm not condemning or condoning. I'm just trying to explain how the word was valued and deployed 30-40 years ago and trying to provide some useful cultural context. The word was on the cusp of turning from a rough piece of slang that the older generation used regularly into a genuinely transgressive word that everyone of all generations now finds highly offensive.

There's another excellent example from a few years earlier in Fawlty Towers. The old major sees nothing wrong with using the 'n' word or 'wog' either. It's an example of how out of touch he is. Basil Fawlty humours but doesn't condemn him. Typical of how using the word was seen in the late 70s or early 80s. (By the way 'wog' is in common usage in Australia where it is used differently to describe Greeks and Italians - even among themselves. But that's another story). Whenever the series is repeated this scene is now always cut.

How does MES use the word? Being a cultural maven (I suppose), he's spotted that this schism exists between the use of the word and how the chattering classes are starting to perceive it. It looks like he was a little ahead of the curve though, since as you point out, they didn't take the bait. So, there we are. It's not really what I was writing about.

I hope you don't think for a minute that I'm defending contemporary denigratory use of this word. Obviously I'm not. I make no wider judgement on MES's world view.
Bazhdaddy
  • 100. Bazhdaddy | 02/02/2019
The line "the fear and the awe" also appears in the live version of And This Day on HP&K. Probably relates to "a poeeeaaaaaaaaaam" on the Hex sleevenotes;
"Never knew had so many friends till venue. In awe. The fans were awed And cowered"
dannyno
  • 101. dannyno | 08/02/2019
Ian Forth.

Alright, so sociologically you're maybe not far off. I didn't see Fawlty Towers until years later, so that passed me by, but when I was at school there was certainly no taboo on the use of the "n" word.

My issues are with the usual ways in which people interpret MES' use of the word. It's unclear whether it is said in character or is in MES' voice. It's unclear whether it is satirical or straight. etc.

Given the racist import of the word, I'm not minded to just let it float by uncritiqued. I think it's natural to wonder whether MES' deployment of the word can be justified or not. Maybe it can. Maybe it can't. But the pat answers don't cut it. Not least because MES said very little about it, and what he did so is incredibly problematic.

And the other question is, if we think we know why the word is there, is it used successfully? And I've yet to hear a good reason for its presence that I think actually works well.

Did MES spot this "schism"? Well, what is there in the lyric or in contemporary interviews to make us think so? Nothing. His most substantive comment, in Allied Propaganda is a probably speed-fuelled diatribe against ethnic diversity in music and television. One, by the way, that I don't think reflects a sincerely held opinion, given MES' well-documented love for black artists in genres from soul to jazz to reggae to blues. But still it can't be ignored.
Ian Forth
  • 102. Ian Forth | 09/02/2019
I agree it's hard to work out what the point of The Classical is: it's almost impossible to work out a coherent narrative thread.

However I personally never had too much problem with understanding that the suddenly shouted phrases - This is the home of the vain! Where are the obligatory niggers? Hey there fuckface! - are yelled in character. It would be passing strange if here, and really here alone, amid 500 other songs we discovered MES had been a racist all along.

Is the word ill judged? Maybe. Patti Smith and John Lennon had used the word within the previous ten years in the titles of their songs. Although their songs were easier to work out, the word's still there. No one had much of a problem at the time, and you can see why once you know the cultural context of 1982.
dannyno
  • 103. dannyno | 26/02/2019
The "in character" defence would work better if it wasn't for the Allied Propaganda interview.
bzfgt
  • 104. bzfgt (link) | 16/03/2019
I have absolutely no doubt that it's "in character" because I don't think any Fall lyric is straightforwardly MES speaking from the heart, and it would be really strange if this were the exception. To put it another way, I'd like to be convinced a few other things are not "in character" before jumping up and down and insisting this one isn't. Maybe I'm naive, but what is one good example of a Fall lyric that is MES speaking directly to the listener?

The note I originally had here was more or less a defense/justification of MES's use of the word. But when I read the AP interview, I saw that MES had cut the ground out for both of our feet. I'm not "stressed" about it at all, and I can enjoy the song and everything. But for better or worse, there's no way I can defend it given his remarks in the interview.

It's not even that I find it offensive. It's not really up to me. Personally, I don't feel that it's like the Tetragrammaton, where there is no use/mention distinction and it can never be uttered. But the question here is narrower. It's not that MES turned me against his use of the word with his interview. It's that he removed any possible grounds on which I could justify it even if I wanted to. And, admittedly, I do want to. But it's not going to happen.

Did I go too far in the other direction? I have no idea, I don't remember what the note says, and I don't want to read it right now! It's too tiresome.

So I know exactly what you're saying, and I fully agree we can't read it as though it were said in 2019 in the USA. I'm not condemning it, I'm just not defending it, because MES won't let me.
djbawbag
  • 105. djbawbag | 19/06/2019
Regarding point (2):

Currently reading a biography of Werner Heisenberg (Beyond Uncertainty by David C. Cassidy)and came across an interesting quote from the time of the short-lived Bavarian Soviet Republic of 1919:

"Pupils! You have experienced the political and economic collapse of Germany; now you will experience the last and greatest collapse, that of her culture." Genteel "Kultur" has been used too long by the upper classes to separate themselves from the uneducated masses. "The collapse of our culture has now become a historical necessity, "
djbawbag
  • 106. djbawbag | 19/06/2019
Also, the biography notes that for the education of someone of Heisenberg's social class and intelligence:

"Gymnasium curricula continued to stress the classics. Of the 263 credit hours decreed over nine years of study, 63 were devoted to Latin, 36 to Greek, and 31 each to mathematics and German. The remaining 133 hours were divided among history, religion, athletics, French, geography, and nature studies, in that order. Physics received the least attention, next to drawing, with 6 hours spread over three years. "
Chris Cohen
  • 107. Chris Cohen | 30/06/2019
I hear distinctly "Stormier, stormier", not "Snobbier, Snobbier".
bzfgt
  • 108. bzfgt (link) | 03/07/2019
Shit, yeah...definitely "stormier"
djbawbag
  • 109. djbawbag | 08/07/2019
I still hear "snobbier".

Interestingly, the recording from Glasgow Night Moves 1st April 1982 has some clear vocals and a variation on that line:

"Behind every man of power is a snobby aura."
bzfgt
  • 110. bzfgt (link) | 12/07/2019
Shit, really? I'll have to listen to that, I was sure of "stormier" last listen...
dannyno
  • 111. dannyno | 14/11/2019
Correction to note #1, the quote from MES is not from Sounds. The link given at the moment is dead, but the piece can be found here: https://sites.google.com/site/reformationposttpm/Home/bibliography/1989---july-august---meijer-interview, [Archive].

It's a 1989 interview, which just happens to include a quote from Sounds at the beginning.
bzfgt
  • 112. bzfgt (link) | 16/11/2019
Thank you, Dan.

1. Where was that published initially?

2. How did you figure out everywhere I cited that interview?
Hexen Blumenthal
  • 113. Hexen Blumenthal | 16/11/2019
I wonder if the "40 people" quote from Beefheart was a parody of the prevailing hippie astrology BS of Richie Havens etc

There is a secret that has been kept from man 2,000 years
There is a secret that has been kept from man 2,000 years
And that secret is that there are only
twelve people on the earth at any given time
That there are only twelve people on the earth at any given time
And these people have been symbolized
Down through the ages of mankind, by many symbols
dannyno
  • 114. dannyno | 18/11/2019
Comment #112:

Question 1:

It was posted to FallNet on 19th January 1995, by Sietse Meijer:

https://web.archive.org/web/19991007223643/http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/home/cxl/fall/fallnet/interview_4

Archived home page

Meijer says, there:

I had been trying to reach Smith for a couple of weeks, because I wanted to do an interview by phone for the magazine I had just started with some friends.


Question 2:

Genius, plus Google site: search.
dannyno
  • 115. dannyno | 18/11/2019
Sietse Meijer, by the way, is a journalist - started in the mainstream apparently by spending 8 years with the Dutch rock magazine Oor. Presumably before this he ran his own magazine, which would be what the interview was for, but I don't know what that was.

http://www.sietsemeijer.nl/
bzfgt
  • 116. bzfgt (link) | 23/11/2019
Good stuff, HB! And, thanks, Dan...Google site search I never trust so I don't use,,,apparently one can get results
dannyno
  • 117. dannyno | 27/12/2019
Comment #113: is this symbolic representation of 12 archetypes not also Jungian? There is more Jung in The Fall than is commonly realised, I reckon.
dannyno
  • 118. dannyno | 27/12/2019
Paul Hanley's book, Have a Bleedin Guess, notes that these days the members of the group cannot agree on the particulars of the composition of this song. However, he records Steve Hanley saying:


Craig didn't write it all - he certainly didn't write the bass solo at the end. John Taylor wrote that for 'Planet Earth'.

(p.89)
dannyno
  • 119. dannyno | 27/12/2019
Paul Hanley identifies the "profile razor" as a Wilkinson Sword disposable razor, "adverts for which were all over the TV at the time."
(Have a Bleedin Guess, p.97.
dannyno
  • 120. dannyno | 31/05/2020
dannyno
  • 121. dannyno | 01/06/2020
I don't think we've quite got to grips with the romantic vs classical theme, half-buried though it is.

I've been reading MES-favourite Wyndham Lewis' biographical Blasting and Bombardiering. There are repeated put-downs of the culturally "romantic", and then this passage (p250 of my edition, which is the 1967 revised second edition, republished in paperback in1982 by John Calder/Riverrun Press):

Wyndham LewisWhat I think history will say about the 'Men of 1914' is that they represent an attempt to get away from romantic art into classical art, away from political propaganda back into the detachment of true literature: just as in painting Picasso has represented a desire to terminate the Nineteenth Century alliance of painting and natural science. And what has happened - slowly - as a result of the War, is that artistic expression has slipped back again into political propaganda and romance, which go together. When you get one you get the other. The attempt at objectivity has failed. The subjectivity of the majority is back again...


Much of which echoes the kinds of things MES has said from time to time about his own work - objectivity vs subjectivity, resisting straightforward political co-option, and so forth.
dannyno
  • 122. dannyno | 01/06/2020
Or from Wyndham Lewis' Time and Western Man (connecting the "romantic" to "advertisement" in a way you could argue this song hints at, sort of):


Romance, as currently used, then, denotes what is unreal or unlikely, or at all events not present , in contrast to what is scientifically true and accessible to the senses here and now. Or it is, in its purest expression, what partakes of the marvellous, the extreme, the unusual. That is why Advertisement (in a grotesque and inflated form) is a pure expression of the romantic mind. Indeed, there is nothing so 'romantic' as Advertisement
bzfgt
  • 123. bzfgt (link) | 21/06/2020
OK I've made a start of it with note 9, which will probably grow. I need to get that thing MES has with "objective vs. subjective" in though...does he ever explain his use of the terms, that you know of, or does he just use them?
dannyno
  • 124. dannyno | 21/06/2020
I don't think he ever clearly defined anything! But worth a look.
harleyr
  • 125. harleyr | 26/06/2020
I think, reading between the lines slightly, that by objective he means imagining himself into the mind of another person, subjective is his own view of things. No idea how that relates to the supposed one side subjective, one side objective split of Extricate though.
Wayne H
  • 126. Wayne H | 23/07/2020
The obligatory N line I see differently to everybody else. I view that phrasing as a tv producer gathering a set to create an image on a youth music show.

The classical seems to be showing the whole music scene and TV as fake. Using the word N highlights this fake ness in a harsh way suggesting the producers want blacks to be seen for image but hold racist views.
dannyno
  • 127. dannyno | 18/10/2020
Tim Burgess has been running Twitter "listening parties". On 17th October 2020 there was one for Hex Enduction Hour.

Archived:
https://timstwitterlisteningparty.com/pages/replay/feed_477.html

Contribution by Grant Showbiz (@zombat)


MES not racist shock..... ....just describing the atmosphere in Rough Trade.........never use the N word though !


Raski BLM, @KurtiousOrange asks:


What do you mean the atmosphere in rough trade? Was it a racist environment?


Showbiz replies:


No just very cool 2 have a couple of Rastas hanging about....


https://twitter.com/zombat/status/1317542189208129536

Not sure that helps much.
Snob
  • 128. Snob | 28/12/2020
Should be:

Prolapse
On the one millennium conspiracy forever

And he doesn't sing

Millennium of conspiracy

Just

Millennium conspiracy
bzfgt
  • 129. bzfgt (link) | 06/02/2021
127 it helps a little but I got to think about how/whether to work it in.

128 I'll check
The Bloodless One
  • 130. The Bloodless One | 14/04/2021
My interpretation of the poem, prior to reading into its extratextual discussions, was that it was a poem critiquing “tradition”, replacing “tradition” with the similarly meaning term “the classical”. Classical in the way the word has been used in European art history (or at least music history, which is the only art history I’ve studied extensively so maybe this isn’t a thing in others European art forms’ histories), to describe an “old higher art form of the great past artists of Ancient Greece” sorta fash-y garbage. “There’s no culture in your brag” being a dig at bougie wealth/power flaunting, “Your taste for bullshit reveals a lust for a form of office” describing how culture is always superseded by profit makes for a stale world/life for the rest of us. “This is the home of the vein” I think is obv following this train of thought I’m working with so far. “Where are the obligatory n****rs” switching perspective to that of the bourgeois now, the bourgeois/capitalism is synonymous with racism, the two feed of each other. The next line is continuing from that perspective. “There are twelve people in the world, The rest are paste” still from the bougie perspective, gloating about how them few have so much of the privilege, and how the rest of us working class people have been historically viewed as the disposable problem creators of society. Etc etc. Kill the tradition, or “the classical”, that we working class people have been subjugated by socially, economically and artistically.

I could probably write a fucking book on this poem, but ya I’ll leave it there for now. Haha. But all that being said, after reading about Mark E’s less than tasteful responses to being asked about the n-word in interviews, I think it’s safe to say that even though Mark E is a definite working class art heroes IMO, I might be coming at this as a bit more of a militant anarcho-communist than he was. So if the goal is to decode what Mark E’s true political alignments on certain issues were then my interpretation isn’t important in the face of the extratextual information I’ve read discussed by many across the internet. It’s very complicated. And a lot of those early punks were fucking edge lords without realizing that being an edge lord also enables fascist rhetoric to stealthily exist within the scene.

Anyways, still thought I’d put an excerpt of my initial interpretation of the poem here regardless.
The Bloodless One
  • 131. The Bloodless One | 14/04/2021
I should’ve reread that before pressing “post” lol. Sorry for all the typos and stuff. Hope my ideas still made in through intact. Haha
bzfgt
  • 132. bzfgt (link) | 17/04/2021
Yeah good read, also I think they've said "The Classical" is a kind of boast about the song itself, of course could be both
Matt Cox
  • 133. Matt Cox | 13/05/2021
I'm sure its 'Snobbier Snobbier' not stormier stormier?
dannyno
  • 134. dannyno | 03/07/2021
Comment #130. Anarcho-communist interpretations of Fall lyrics: this is what we want.
Chrissie
  • 135. Chrissie | 21/07/2021
I've just watched 'Borderline' from 1950 where Fred MacMurray utters "I never felt better in my life" as the last line in the film. I've never read about Smith being a big Raymond Burr fan though!
dannyno
  • 136. dannyno | 16/08/2021
Comment #135. Question is, when would MES have seen the film?
Big Chief Mango Chutney XIV
  • 137. Big Chief Mango Chutney XIV | 28/08/2021
AJI hear the 'parralax/poleaxe' line as 'prolapse'. I can't hear it as anything else, and the idea of MES exclaiming 'prolapse!' separate to the other lines always gives me a chuckle


I've always heard it as 'proleaxe' (i.e. a word MES made up with an extra 'r').
ChunkyRice
  • 138. ChunkyRice | 22/09/2021
It's really strange how much the "n" word in The Classical upsets people who consider themselves Fall fans.

1. It is bleedin' obviously a dig at the kind of tokenism which has gradually ramped on TV, where people of colour are placed incongruously into programmes as an exercise in box-ticking, to the point where we nowadays we have had a black Anne Boleyn and Achilles on recent TV shows. You may feel this kind of "representation" is a good thing, not at all patronising and weird, but MES obviously wanted to call it out. He always had a good nose for "progressive" nonsense and phony social engineering.

2. MES is always flipping between perspectives. It's clear that this lyric is delivered from the mouth of a rowdy, lairy pub creature. MES is exactly this person, at times, too. Forthright of opinions, not caring who hears them. It's what many fans claim to love about him, isn't it? Or would we rather he had checked all his lyrics with Guardian journalists for "concerning" or "problematic" expressions?

3. It seems a lot of Fall fans are ardent left wingers - each to their own. However, you all must have noticed that MES had short shrift with the left wing as time went by, and was endlessly calling out its totalitarianism and hypocrisy (along with all the shite he noticed about the right wing, the centre and all other parts of the political spectrum). "5 years in a PC camp", "It was the fault of the government" (lazy blaming of institutions for personal problems) spring to mind, as well as comments made about Rough Trade in interviews and broadsides against "liberals" and "progressives" in sections of "Renegade". Left wingers tend to feel that everyone should agree with them on everything, or they are "bad", "wrong" "-ists" etc., so if you are a left wing Fall fan, you've picked a difficult lyricist to reconcile with your politics.

4. It's just a word. Has anyone been harmed by its utterance in the song? Now or in the past has anyone been oppressed by "The Classical"? Should it have a trigger warning?

5. You don't have to identify with / explain / defend / attack songwriters that you listen to. It can be fun, but in this instance it's all very teenage. We can enjoy different perspectives without it meaning much at all. Because someone has an Ayn Rand book doesn't make them a fascist, just as reading Karl Marx doesn't make you a communist. Listening to the genius of MES or Morrissey is not going to make you xenophobic or racist, and you don't need to be apologetic about it at all.
deruntergeher
  • 139. deruntergeher | 15/10/2021
'Fuck-face' was a favourite insult of notable British theatre person and former wife of Ewan MacColl, Joan Littlewood, from 1940s onwards. I thought it was either a Mark Smith improvised insult or punk invention, but it appears to have some provenance.
Norm Lickety
  • 140. Norm Lickety | 28/10/2021
Regarding the line "there are twelve people in the world - the rest are paste."

File this one a bit under "hidden in plain sight" but in Colin Wilson's "Ritual in the Dark" - a novel referenced of course in HEH's "Deer Park" - the protagonist Gerard Sorme, while ruminating on the nature of killers, recalls that "Nietzsche had said that a whole nation was a detour to create a dozen great men..." I'm not familiar with the source of the Nietzsche quote myself, but a cursory google search reveals his actual quote refers to "five or six great men" as opposed to a dozen. Given MES' admiration for Wilson's novel, evidenced by the Deer Park reference and his listing it among his favorites in the 1981 NME "Portrait of the Artist as a Consumer" piece, not to mention the other Nietzsche-ian references here, I'd say it might be a pretty decent bet this is where that line came from.
Alexandros Kazazis
  • 141. Alexandros Kazazis | 02/02/2022
It was this very song, performed live, that got me OUT of punk.
"Too much reliance on punk, here. I destroy punk. I destroy romantic actors. Kill it! Kill it!!"
When did this happen? 18th of September, 1982. Where? Athens, Greece.
I was a 16 year old punk, and this concert changed my life forever.
I was not a romantic, I was not an actor. I was full of rage and I needed radical culture.
Thank you, you genius Mark E. Smith, but most of all: Thank you, THE FALL! Without the bunch of them, the '80s band, Mark would have never made a difference at all. Pity the genius was too arrogant to ever realize it / acknowledge it / show RESPECT to his brilliant musicians, the TIGHTEST, most UNCOMPROMISING ensemble of the era.
It is, IMHO, the main reason for his ugly and tragic later life and such an early disintegration and death.

Still, RIP, MES. You were a milestone of contemporary counterculture. You helped me survive. And everybody I knew hated you.
Alexandros Kazazis
  • 142. Alexandros Kazazis | 02/02/2022
And btw, I always thought he sang "Where are you bigotry nig*ers", which to my ears always made perfect sense, ever since I was a teenager. I will not explain, art is open to interpretation. And unambiguous art is not art at all.
Michael Allen Z Prime
  • 143. Michael Allen Z Prime (link) | 03/04/2022
Re: note 6.
I always thought it was Hekla, Hekla. Hekla was the volcano in Iceland that exploded in 1980/81. There was a hippy legend that 'all the ley lines meet in Iceland'. I'm sure that was one of the reasons for the group going there, and where part of the album was recorded. Killing Joke visited Iceland around the same time, to investigate the ley line theory. There was a lot of discussion about this at the time, due to the explosions. I'm sure MES had read 'The Old Straight Track', he probably read 'Fortean Times' as well.
Michael Allen Z Prime
  • 144. Michael Allen Z Prime (link) | 03/04/2022
It's also worth noting that 'The Parallax View' was a classic 70s conspiracy theory film.
dannyno
  • 145. dannyno | 11/04/2022
Comment #143.

It doesn't sound like "Hekla". I wish it did.
bend
  • 146. bend | 08/07/2022
You have all missed the point.

The Classical is a revelation of history.

There is no culture in my brag,
Your taste for bullshit reveals a lust for a home of office


This line is spoken from a time which is understood but has yet to be realized and is a clear reference to the communist idea of base and superstructure. According to Marx, the base consists of the means and relations of production, culture exists in the superstructure. While they are mutually influencing, the base has significantly more influence on the superstructure than the superstructure has on the base. Culture is established by the mode of production. To say "there is no culture in my brag" is to speak from the future, a time which can be understood but has yet to be realized. The fact that this CAN be understood is why their "taste for bullshit reveals a lust for a home of office", it signifies a refusal to exit the past due to a lack of interest in the future, or a preference for the present state of things; communism is after all according to Marx "the real movement which abolishes the present state of things".

I've taken this line above directly from orange lyric book, on record I hear "your taste for bullshit reveals a lust for a form of obvious". People would prefer not to think, they prefer readymade opinions; opinions they can establish and rest their ego upon (see C.R.E.E.P.):

THIS IS THE HOME OF THE VAIN!
THIS IS THE HOME OF THE VAIN!


This was the revelation of Marx:

Communism as the positive transcendence of private property as human self-estrangement, and therefore as the real appropriation of the human essence by and for man; communism therefore as the complete return of man to himself as a social (i. e., human) being — a return accomplished consciously and embracing the entire wealth of previous development.


The proletariat liberates itself through the abolition of itself; in spite of reality, ego-obsessed "leftists" would prefer to talk about what they are owed and how they are oppressed:

Where are the obligatory niggers?
HEY THERE FUCKFACE!!
HEY THERE FUCKFACE!!


You are the "obligatory nigger", you accept your fate as a wretch't prole, you cannot concieve of a reality in which there is not someone lower than you, more despised than you. Hey there fuckface!
The word "nigger" is used here without context to race, it is used as a word which describes an alienated being. Yoko Ono and John Lennon had already used it in this context in 1972 with their song "Woman is the Nigger of the World".
Woman is the nigger of the world
Think about it, do something about it


The working class, which has the capability to liberate itself whenever the proles are ready to ditch their ego and their office, instead accepts endless abuse, hatred and disparagement from their masters. History has been revealed, but we cling to the past through a false present.

There are twelve people in the world
The rest are paste
THIS IS THE HOME OF THE VAIN!
THIS IS THE HOME OF THE VAIN!


These are the twelve people:
Ruben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Zebulun, Issachar, Manasseh, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Joseph and Benjamin.
See Revelation 7:
After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth so that no wind could blow on earth or sea or against any tree. I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, having the seal of the living God, and he called with a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to damage earth and sea, saying, “Do not damage the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have marked the servants of our God with a seal on their foreheads.”

And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the people of Israel:

From the tribe of Judah twelve thousand sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand sealed.


This is the home of the vain, Ecclesiastes 1:
Vanity of vanities, says the Teacher,
vanity of vanities! All is vanity.
What do people gain from all the toil
at which they toil under the sun?
A generation goes, and a generation comes,
but the earth remains forever.
The sun rises and the sun goes down,
and hurries to the place where it rises.
The wind blows to the south,
and goes around to the north;
round and round goes the wind,
and on its circuits the wind returns.
All streams run to the sea,
but the sea is not full;
to the place where the streams flow,
there they continue to flow.
All things are wearisome;
more than one can express;
the eye is not satisfied with seeing,
or the ear filled with hearing.
What has been is what will be,
and what has been done is what will be done;
there is nothing new under the sun.
Is there a thing of which it is said,
“See, this is new”?
It has already been,
in the ages before us.
The people of long ago are not remembered,
nor will there be any remembrance
of people yet to come
by those who come after them.


There will be no more public revelation.

I just left the Hotel Amnesia, I had to go there
Where it is I can't remember,
But now I can remember...now I can remember!


You exit the Hotel Amnesia at every second of your life until.

HAFTA! HAFTA!
MESSAGE FOR YER! MESSAGE FOR YER!


Revelation of The Classical
Realization of The Present State of Things
bend
  • 147. bend | 08/07/2022
104 bzfgt
and it would be really strange if this were the exception.


this is the exception
bend
  • 148. bend | 09/08/2022
an exception
bend
  • 149. bend | 21/08/2022
additionally,

The Twelve:

Bertrand Barere, Jean-Nicolas Billaud-Varenne, Lazare Carnot, Jean-Marie Collot d'Herbois, Georges Couthon, Marie-Jean Herault de Sechelles, Robert Lindet, Prieur of the Cote-d'Or, Prieur of the Marne, Maximilien Robespierre, Andre Jeanbon Saint-Andre, Louis-Antoine Saint-Just
Bremen Nacht
  • 150. Bremen Nacht | 14/10/2022
If you have a problem with MES dropping N-bombs, you shouldn't be listening to the Fall. Open your fucking minds. It's art.

Mark would laugh in your faces.
dannyno
  • 151. dannyno | 30/10/2022
Who cares what Mark would do? Think for yourself.
HP Mayo
  • 152. HP Mayo | 20/11/2022
Of all the comments surrounding the offending lines, I think ChunkyRice #138 comes the closest to hitting the nail on the head. I would say, to my ears, Slates and Hex are MES at his most abrasive and certainly at his most anti-intellectual. To me, with these lines, he’s criticising the liberal bourgeoisie who present ‘representation’ as ‘liberation’ whilst simultaneously harbouring deep seeded opinions of minorities. They put these oppressed people on stage, not because they care about their struggle, but to present an illusion of peace and harmony so no one questions the current state of affairs and the liberal bourgeoisie’s part in perpetuating hierarchy. 30 years on, all this type of representation has produced is minorities who are millionaires/billionaires that, instead of liberating their fellow minorities, directly contribute to the same oppressive state that held their respective communities back.
dannyno
  • 153. dannyno | 26/11/2022
That's certainly a critique someone could make. But it's not a critique you can find in anything MES ever actually said, and it's at odds with what he actually did say.
HP Mayo
  • 154. HP Mayo | 27/12/2022
You are the Annotated Fall oracle Danny so I won’t dispute that (and us Fall fans are blessed to have your insights and research, by the way.) I’m just of the opinion that MES wasn’t saying it for a laugh, or simple shock factor, as that sort of behaviour seemed to happen more so in interviews where he is full contrarian mode as opposed to his own writing where he speaks from different perspectives. Especially the stuff he was writing around this point (this song is followed by Jawbone and The Air Rifle, for example.) Also I feel some critiques of this line particularly remind me of the Paul Morley train of thought (i.e. he was just a drunk speed freak talking nonsense that sometimes made sense) which I really resent as it’s quite dismissive of MES’ intelligence and writing process.

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