Chilinism

Lyrics

(1)

The chiselers
He is desperate
Passed on
The 9th richest, bar none (2)
The chiselers

He is short
They are short
The Stones are short
Mr Grumbly, with a white Ferrari, is short
Giving you hard looks (3)

In the long long Yeltsin days (4)
Get in touch
They're skint
Relocation due for the chiseler

Dry hump, in the hip club (5)

Chiseler, chiseler, you're a godamn chiseler

(internet) (6)

The chiselers

He is desperate
They are desparate
One mad, bad, one mad
The Arab in

Chiselers
He is short
Pink Floyd are short

(Internet)

9th richest country in the world bar none

Dry hump, in the hip club

Basically
Chiselers
Chiselers
Chiselers

Dry hump, in the hip club

I try to think like you do
Act like you do
Try to dress like you do
I thought I was you (7)

Now you turn around
Point your finger at me
Say I'm Chilinist
You think I'm the pits

The chiselers are here
And when they appear
You know I'll disappear again
The chisellers are there
And everywhere
And now I'll never come here again

I think like you do
I act like you do
I thought I was you

I need no persuasion
You know what to say
The process is clear
You are not happy

I try to think like you do
Dress like you do
I thought I was you

Chiseler!

 

Notes

1. This song also appears, all on one single, in variant forms as The Chiselers and Chilinist. This version, which is the one that appears on The Light User Syndrome, has the most lyrics and this is why it is the one I chose to list it under here. This version is particularly fascinating as it contains a lot of things, not all of which are, to my ears, equally worthy. Some of the best music on The Light User Syndrome happens within the auspices of its seven minutes and five seconds, as does some of the least appealing moments of the album. The music on offer ranges from prog and fluffy AOR grandiosity to some of the more hard-edged stuff of the Fall's 1990s, sometimes at the same time. Brix seems to be enjoying herself here, and she's all over the song both vocally and instrumentally, which isn't the case with many of the songs on the album. MES doesn't seem to have thrown away any of the ideas he had for the song, and although the trimmed versions from the single provide a solid alternative to this state of affairs, one wonders whether this reading should have stayed a B-side, sort of like the "director's cut" on the flipside of a DVD.

"Chilinism," a practitioner of which is called a "chilinist," are probably just a weird-out variants of, respoectively, "chiseling" and "chiseler." Etymologically, these words are evocative of "chiliasm" (from the Greek chiliad, a group of a thousand units), the Latinate version of which is "millenialism" or "millenarianism," the doctine that Christ will reign on earth for one thousand years immediately prior to the final judgment. It is somewhat characteristic of MES that he takes a petty and self-serving phenomenon, the chiseler--and for MES there is usually an emphasis on a specific kind of chiseler, those who treat music as primarily a business, some of whom, in the process, rip off the Fall for good measure--and makes an "ism" out of it. And the "ism" he seems to be comparing it to is not just any old "ism," but one so grandiose as to be concerned with the end of the world as we know it.

Reformation provides the following anecdote from frequent Fall collaborator Grant Showbiz

Grant Showbiz quoted in "Tape Op" no 16, 2000: "I was...working on [Chilinist] and Craig Scanlon had gotten a clarinet and we tried very hard to make it work, to get a good sound. Then Mark heard it and said, 'What the fuck is there a clarinet on this song for?' He told us to wipe it off the track. We played the mix again and Mark was like, 'This is shit. Where is the clarinet? That was the best thing on the track.'"  

"Chilinism" was to be Scanlon's final recording with the band, and by all accounts MES was trying to push him out at this point, so it is likely this behavior was more juvenile than senile.

From Hanley's The Big Midweek:

We’ve always been a band who puts an album together quicker than this one single is taking. Mark’s got infinite ideas as to what arrangements he wants in, how many parts it should have, what happens in each part… and he won’t rest until he’s exhausted them all, and us.

After countless revisits to the studio, we are setting up again, Brix and Julia with the guitars, Karl with a guitar, a drum kit and half an eye on the keyboards. But what’s this? Instead of tuning his guitar, Craig is opening a much smaller case. I look on in horror as he begins to assemble a clarinet.

‘Prestwich junk shop,’ he mumbles by way of explanation and proceeds to play it all over the track.

Mark hates it and has it wiped off. Then he listens to the play-back wondering what the fuck happened to that noise, before demanding its return on account of it being the best bit.

What we eventually emerge with is an over-processed, convoluted, over-extended version of what we had in the first place, several months previously. It’s a self-indulgent montage of disjointed styles, none of which have any real connection with one another, and, for what it’s worth, you can’t hear the clarinet at all. There’s the bones of a decent song in there, buried by Mark and a producer with too much time on their hands.

We play the Astoria in London and the Junction in Cambridge. There’s the going on hours late, there’s the walk-offs, trying to drag the band off, stopping and starting songs, messing with the equipment. Afterwards, even the fans are asking ‘Why don’t you leave?’

I used to be proud to be in this band. Now people are looking at me with pity, thinking, what the fuck are you doing? What was always the unthinkable is now something I can almost imagine considering. And yet… ‘If you had a business for sixteen years,’ I tell them, ‘that sent you round the world and gave you the opportunity to leave a legacy, would you find it so easy to just abandon it?’
 
The Fall are asked to write music for a Channel 4 play. Instructions from above are very strict. We are to write individually so it is clear who has written what. The winners will be sent to a London studio to record their piece and, hopefully, the best one will end up on the soundtrack.
And the winners are me, Karl and Si, so each piece comprises only keyboards, drums and bass. Now there’s no guitar at all! Surprise surprise, we don’t get the commission.

A live performance of the ‘Chiselers’ piece is to be televised for Granada Reports at Matt & Phred’s jazz club in Manchester. Recording takes place in the afternoon prior to the evening’s show.

There’s no sign of Craig. When I ask Mark about this, he tells me this small stage isn’t big enough for someone who didn’t play on the record.

Craig’s being pushed out. Maybe he’s losing interest because he’s being pushed out. Maybe he’s being pushed out because he’s losing interest. Heading over to his the following day, we have a brutal discussion. ‘You’ve given up.’ It’s more of a statement than a question.

He looks at me. ‘The truth hurts. But yeah.’

‘Craig, just go round there and find out what’s going on.’

So he does, only to have Lucy inform him he’ll be receiving a letter from Mark which explains everything.

Several days later this fabled missive arrives, explaining nothing. In this manner, Craig is informed he is no longer in The Fall because of his failure to maintain equipment.

 

Thanks to Dan for typing all that out.

And from Martin:

"The Peel session of the song includes the line 'nosy idle gossips,' also used in 4 1/2 Inch. The full line in this session is 'adrenalin fusspots and nosy idle gossips.' There's also this: 'Mr Grumbly swerved the car.'"

 

Zack finds a conversation between Simon Wolstencroft and producer Mike Bennett:

 

Bennett: "The track 'The Chiselers' was something that was going on all the way through Cerebral and all the way through Light User and Mark E Smith just kept adding to the car [?]. [...] I think there's a big section of it that was recorded on a Dictaphone and looped from Phoenix Festival. Then we went into Bucks Music in Notting Hill on a four-track. We describe it as 'from Shabby Road to Abbey Road and everything in between' and that's where we mastered it: Abbey Road."

I believe the looped section that Bennett describes is either 2:58-3:22 on "Interlude / Chilinism" or 6:32 to the end. If Bennett's memory is correct - if the single includes a sample of The Fall live at Phoenix Festival 1995 - that means that Craig Scanlon did indeed play on the "Chiselers" single as he was still a member of The Fall at that time.

 

^

2. Below we learn that this refers to the ninth richest country in the world, although what "bar none" could mean in this context is unclear (or rather it is absolutely clear that this is a typical--and typically wonderful--humorously garbled send-up of discursive conventions on MES's part). In 1995, the world's ten richest countries by GDP were the USA, Germany, Japan, France, the United Kingdom, Italy, Brazil, China, Spain, and Canada. I listed them all because there are various ways of measuring wealth, and because it's doubtful if MES checked any statistics or was concerned with precision, but nevertheless we shouldn't even assume he's refering to a country on this list (much less assume he means Spain).  He mentions an "Arab" later, so he could be thinking of a Middle Eastern country with oil wealth, but really, who knows?

^

3. This sudden concern with shortness is puzzling, although further down it occasions one of the more memorable, and frequently quoted, lines from this era, when Brix bleats "Pink Floyd are short!" Short in what sense? Possibly physical stature, although David Gilmour is six feet tall, and Roger Waters soars to a full 6'3'' (these things can be determined very quickly these days using Google). These folks could be coming up short in terms of money or product, or not reaching the minimum metaphorical height to get on the cosmic amusement park ride of not being a douche. What seems clear is that in MES's eyes they are lacking something.

According to nairng at the Fall online forum:

I have the 7"...it says THIS SONG IS RELEVANT TO THE RECENT EXPERIENCES OF HALIFAX TOWN FOOTBALL CLUB on the back cover.
I always imagined it was about the club going bust, so they begged (chiseled?) for money from the Rolling Stones & Pink Floyd, but were refused because said bands found themselves 'short'. Er, of money.
I have no evidence for this.

See the comments below for much more information on this.

^

4. Boris Yeltsin was the first president of post-Soviet Russia, presiding over a country which was run by chiselers, and in which often the only means of survival was chiseling. Russia underwent a catastrophic economic collapse after the dissolution of the U.S.S.R., and crime and fraud were rampant. "

"In the long, long days" is a favorite line of MES's, and he often comes on stage shouting over whatever opening number is chosen "Good evening, we are the Fall, in (or "of," or "from") the looong, looooong days!" It is somehow an evocative phrase, even beyond the fact that it is now associated with the beginning of a Fall show--and, appropriately enough, it is impossible to say why. Yeltsin's long, long days were largely a time of chaotic penury and larceny, before stability was restored and crime and poverty became more predictably executed and distributed.

^

5. A furtive dry hump on the dance floor may be seen as a way of chiseling someone out of their sexual favors...

^

6. This is what the Lyrics Parade has the background vocals saying here, though in this instance I can't swear to their accuracy of transcription. According to Mark Smith, the internet was invented by Fall fans. Thus, while in 1996 the internet was just starting to be a thing, the early adopters in the Fall crowd were probably not perplexed by this.

And Martin points out that on at least one live version, "To paraphrase, the chiselers invented the internet" (Martin's source for this is the live compilation Cheetham Hill).

^

7. These lines are a parody of the Stylistics' "You Are Everything":

Today I saw somebody
Who looked just like you
She walked like you do
I thought it was you

The song is from 1971, but in 1975 The Best of the Stylistics, which includes "You Are Everything," went to number 1 in the UK. Thanks are in order to Flickering Lexicon on the Fall online forum for finding the connection.

^

 

 

Comments (20)

john
  • 1. john | 10/09/2013
Cheese alert
bzfgt
  • 2. bzfgt | 07/10/2013
I can't say I disagree; at times it's almost perverse. Engaging, though, although some editing would have improved matters. "Chiselers" is a relatively vegan version, don't you think? (emphasis on "relatively")
dannyno
  • 3. dannyno | 29/10/2013
It's definitely "short" as in short of money, not short in stature. On the Fall forum I cited various contemporary news stories about those mentioned in the song, and also about Halifax FC.
dannyno
  • 4. dannyno | 10/02/2014
Flickeringlexicon over at the Fall Forum has found what seems to be the source of some of the lyrics:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao8Ttbzqdns

The Stylistics: You Are Everything

"She walked like you do.
I thought it was you"
Mark
  • 5. Mark | 21/05/2014
"Dry hump" - also used in DOSE's "Plug Myself In", which MES added vocals to, around this time.
TamFrmGlsgw
  • 6. TamFrmGlsgw | 10/09/2014
In note 1. you write:
"The Light User Syndrome was to be Scanlon's final album with the band".
Not so. Scanlon had already left, it was in fact to be Steve Hanley's last album with The Fall.
I know your quote from Grant Showbiz seems to contradict this, but I have the 2002 sanctuary records reissue of "The Light User Syndrome" before me just now and and excerpt from the liner notes, written by Daryl Easlea, reads: "The Fall's first album without the considerable left-handed guitar skills of Craig Scanlon, who'd left the group after 15 years in late 1995...". Also, the wikipedia page for TLUS also makes no mention of Scanlon in the "personnel" section.
I know The Chiselers single was released before the album, so perhaps he did play on that song? In any case, he certainly did not record the album with the band.
bzfgt
  • 7. bzfgt | 21/09/2014
You're right about LUS, although Scanlon was on the single, and Hanley was on the next album, Levitate.
bzfgt
  • 8. bzfgt | 22/09/2014
Although apparently CS just played clarinet on the single.
dannyno
  • 9. dannyno | 31/05/2015
I offer some evidence about the Halifax Town AFC connection in this FOF thread:
http://z1.invisionfree.com/thefall/index.php?showtopic=2501

I quote from Hanley's "the Big Midweek" on the recording of the the single here:
http://z1.invisionfree.com/thefall/index.php?showtopic=1102&view=findpost&p=22473744
Martin
  • 10. Martin | 08/09/2015
The Peel session of the song includes the line "nosy idle gossips",also used in 4 1/2 Inch. The full line in this session is "adrenalin fusspots and nosy idle gossips". There's also this: "Mr Grumbly swerved the car."
Martin
  • 11. Martin | 18/07/2016
With reference to note no. 6, about the internet, the version on the compilation album Cheetham Hill contains the following lyrics: "To paraphrase, the chiselers invented the internet".

I need to listen to early live versions of the song to see if and when this phrase was first used.
Martin
  • 12. Martin | 22/07/2016
None of the live 1995 versions of the song I have listened to contain anything at all about the internet, as far as I can hear.

In fact, most of the lyrics in early performances are based around the words "chiselers" and "Dry hump, in the hip club", which Brix sings over and over again.
Zack
  • 13. Zack (link) | 06/01/2017
Some more fun "Chiselers" recording info from the Mike Bennett / Simon Wolstencroft convo linked above.

Bennett: "The track 'The Chiselers' was something that was going on all the way through Cerebral and all the way through Light User and Mark E Smith just kept adding to the car [?]. [...] I think there's a big section of it that was recorded on a Dictaphone and looped from Phoenix Festival. Then we went into Bucks Music in Notting Hill on a four-track. We describe it as 'from Shabby Road to Abbey Road and everything in between' and that's where we mastered it: Abbey Road."

I believe the looped section that Bennett describes is either 2:58-3:22 on "Interlude / Chilinism" or 6:32 to the end. If Bennett's memory is correct - if the single includes a sample of The Fall live at Phoenix Festival 1995 - that means that Craig Scanlon did indeed play on the "Chiselers" single as he was still a member of The Fall at that time.
Neill
  • 14. Neill | 27/03/2017
I had (until I read this page) always assumed that this song was some kind of (very) oblique commentary on children/family. "Chisler" or "Chiseler" is a Dublin/Irish slang term for a child.

And, y'know, children ARE short, as the song points out.
bzfgt
  • 15. bzfgt (link) | 01/04/2017
Wow, one learns a lot doing this! I don't know how I'd ever have heard about that meaning of "Chiseler" if I didn't run this site. I wonder what the origin is...
dannyno
  • 16. dannyno | 26/10/2017
"THIS SONG IS RELEVANT TO THE RECENT EXPERIENCES OF HALIFAX TOWN FOOTBALL CLUB"

It ought to be pointed out that a song can be relevant to Halifax Football Club's experiences without being about their experiences. The song was first played live in April 1995, and the single was released in February 1996.

From The Independent, 2 May 1995:


Some people were on the pitch. They thought it was all over. And if Halifax Town do not placate the taxman by the time the season ends at Runcorn next weekend, it will be.

Invading the playing area is a spring ritual in this neck of West Yorkshire. Two years ago, when Halifax surrendered their League status, they poured on. On Saturday, after seeing them lose what may be the last game at The Shay to the outgoing Vauxhall Conference champions, Kidderminster, most of the 1,754 crowd converged on the players' tunnel in another show of solidarity and sadness.

Tearful men wished they had not come in fancy dress as the Pink Panther or Yasser Arafat. Children clung to mothers like mourners at a funeral. The defiant chants of crew-cut lads - "The Shaymen!" - were tinged with despair. Halifax have threatened imminent closure before, but with debts of pounds 170,000, few believe they are bluffing this time.

Then the chairman of two months, John Stockwell, took the microphone. He had struck a deal with the Inland Revenue whereby they could pay pounds 30,000 by the end of this week and the balance of pounds 55,000 over the next year. Several fans had pledged four-figure sums, he announced, and they were nearly half-way towards the target.

Stockwell worked his audience as if it were the Batley Variety Club. "Wouldn't it be a shame if there was no next season for the sake of pounds 15,000?" Yes, they roared. "Manchester United make that in an hour on the commercial side. Are the people of Halifax going to let Town die for 15 grand?" No! Buckets were passed, and pounds 2,000 thrown in.

The scene was given added poignancy by the thought that Blackburn Rovers - from another textile town, separated by 35 miles and about pounds 60m - are close to their greatest triumph. Twenty years last week the teams drew a League fixture at The Shay. They were happier times for Halifax, among the few since 46 enthusiasts put up pounds 1 each to form the club in 1911.

There have been heady days, such as when Tottenham, Alf Ramsey et al., drew 36,885 for an FA Cup tie in 1953; and a Watney Cup victory over Manchester United, complete with Best, Law and Charlton, in 1971, the year Halifax finished third in the old Third Division, above Aston Villa.

Yet they were always better acquainted with snakes than ladders. In 1993, when they finished bottom, there was no re-election vote to save them. Although, in theory, the Conference offered a way back, problems off the park hardly provided an atmosphere conducive to recovery.

To cut a long story short, Halifax lease The Shay from Calderdale Council for pounds 37,000 a year. For their money they get the dressing-room pegs and the pitch on match days (Leeds reserves hire the same facilities for pounds 500 a time).

There is no security of tenure, none of the bar or shop profits that sustain other outfits with an average gate of 970. Even after selling players that might have taken them back up, they owe pounds 60,000 to landlords who argue that a peppercorn rent would mean "soccer on the rates".

The council is "hung", at least until Thursday's elections, its Tory leader perceived by Town followers as undermining the club's viability in order to sell the site for supermarket development.

Other villains of the piece, real or imaginary, include the conurbation's major employer, the Halifax Building Society, and the Evening Courier newspaper. One allegedly snubs all attempts to persuade it to sponsor the team, the other is said to be biased towards rugby league.

As a London-based fan, Bob Holmes, put it: "Saving the club would cost little more than a 30-second TV ad for the building society." Meanwhile, Saturday's Courier ran just three paragraphs setting up the "final game" at the bottom of its front page, with the 13-a-side code splashed on the back.
Stockwell has not given up on the Halifax - "I'd love to see their 'X' on our shirts" - but the loyalists dare not wait for a miracle. Bernard Lowery's 39-year devotion inspired him into a sponsored circuit of the Shay complex. "It's his life," his wife, Doreen, said. If anyone from the council canvassed her, she warned: "I'll wring their necks."

A member of the Supporters Club committee, Peter Dobson, felt the "fragmented" nature of Calderdale explained official apathy. "It stretches from Todmorden, where people follow Burnley, to Brighouse, where they incline to Huddersfield or Bradford City," he said. "In those places, councillors of whatever party aren't interested in us."

If the worst happened, he would help to re-form the club, even if it meant starting in a park league. "We've fewer fans than Aldershot when they went out of business, so it might take longer, but I'm confident it would take off again." In contrast, Stockwell insisted there was "no way back" once the club closed.

Revealingly, Dave German, the longest-serving player is only 21. By his own reckoning he has had 109 colleagues during five years in the first team.

"The constant chopping and changing hasn't helped," he said. "I feel great affection for this club because they gave me a chance when Sheffield Wednesday let me go, so to see the decline has been terrible."

Halifax have tried to remain full-time, but German admits semi-professionalism is inevitable if they do continue. "The board would have to make cut-backs . . . take the people on pounds 300 and put them on pounds 100."

Dave Worthington, brother of Frank, would have been representing Halifax's most famous footballing family even if his son, Gary, was not leading Town's attack. "The stadium Kirklees built at Huddersfield shows what's possible," he asserted. "It's a source of civic pride, so why can't Calderdale do it here? The Shay's an ideal site, a natural bowl. All it needs is investment and vision.

"People say this is a rugby town, but their gates dropped to 800 when we were getting 2,500. Suddenly they found a chairman prepared to invest in players. Now they've been to Wembley twice and are in the Super League. But if the Shaymen did well, the crowds would be back. This isn't a rugby town, it's a success town."

That image is hard to square with a place that has already lost speedway and basketball teams. The final countdown still shows five days left and pounds 10,000 to find - but where there is life there is hope for Halifax Town. from the tunnel at The Shay - perhaps for the last time.


First posted: http://z1.invisionfree.com/thefall/index.php?showtopic=3551&st=75
dannyno
  • 17. dannyno | 26/10/2017
"Pink Floyd are short"

From Mail on Sunday, 21 January 1996:


Pop goes cash for music superstars;
RECORD COMPANY BOSSES TIGHTEN THE PURSE STRINGS AS CHART TOPPERS DEMAND MORE
by Richard Newton

RECORD companies are about to turn the cash screw on the pop world's superstars.

Janet Jackson's £54 million deal with giant Thorn EMI may mark the turning point for massive recording advances.

Dennis Exton, music industry analyst at Nikko Securities, says: 'Industry growth rates are slowing from 12%-13% in 1994-95 to 8%-9%. If that continues, these deals will become unviable and the record companies will abandon them in a flash.'

Record company executives fear voicing their views because it might antagonise stars and managers. But one industry figure said: 'It's getting to the point where people are turning down top artists.

'A couple passed on George Michael because they weren't going to make any money and it would have used too much of their budget.

'I believe the stars could price themselves out. Meanwhile, record companies will struggle.'

Prince, now trying to cut short his £40 million contract with Warner Brothers, is said to have put together previously unreleased recordings and told the record company to accept them or sue.

Superstars have exploited record companies desperate to sign artists who can guarantee album sales in the millions. Advances have gone through the roof. But executives argue that if the market fails to continue growing at double-figure rates, the stars will never see such deals again.

Many insiders expect the big five record companies - Sony, Thorn EMI, Warner Brothers, Bertelsmann and Polygram - to start tightening the purse strings. One record company lawyer blames agents from outside the industry.

He said: 'Many lawyers who haven't worked for record companies before are suspicious of the companies' claims that margins are tight.

'They think their job is to make as much from the record companies as possible. But if the record companies don't make enough to give the product a big marketing push, they will get a royalty of 20% of nothing.'

In the wake of the Janet Jackson deal, many in the music industry insist that Thorn EMI will be unable to make a profit and only paid up to keep one of the world's most bankable stars before demerging the record business this year.

Thorn EMI said: 'One does not do a deal with an artist as a loss-leader.

Only a handful of artists have that sort of world appeal. The art is knowing how long it will last.'

Insiders say that advances are so large they could threaten vital marketing budgets that record companies lavish on their stars. Yet it is the record giants' formidable marketing resources that draw the stars to them.

Stars' lawyers argue that record companies are richer than they claim.

Pink Floyd's Howard Jones, of Sheridans, said: 'My opinion is that contracts have not reached their peak. After all, what are the marketing costs? They are not that great.

'The best marketing is touring, and the bands are doing their own marketing when they go on tour.'
dannyno
  • 18. dannyno | 26/10/2017
Also perhaps relevant, from http://z1.invisionfree.com/thefall/index.php?showtopic=3551&view=findpost&p=22246617:

Mail on Sunday, 5 February 1995:


Stars set for court battle
Richard Newton

THE stars of two of the biggest supergroups of the Seventies are set to challenge each other in the courts.

Rick Wright, one of the founders of Pink Floyd, is demanding almost £1 million from Jon Anderson, the singer and songwriter of Yes.

Anderson was made bankrupt last April by the Inland Revenue for £222,000, although his US lawyer claimed the judgment was a mistake.

Then three months ago, the official receiver, who had tried for months to get the California-based Anderson to sign formal insolvency documents, had to resort to cunning to complete the task. The Receiver finally caught up with the rock star during a rare weekend visit to the UK in November to sign copies of his new compact disc at a record shop in Oxford Street.

Rather than presenting Anderson with a CD to sign, one of the 'fans' presented him with a statement of affairs from the receiver and asked for a quiet word.

Anderson will face more serious problems if Pink Floyd - who shared the same accountant, Martin Stainton - prove that £1 million of their royalties were diverted into his account, even if, as he is understood to claim, it was done without his knowledge.

Stainton had power of attorney over Jon Anderson's financial affairs for about 16 years and was accused last year of stealing millions of pounds from Pink Floyd.


Also this, 14 August 1995, Evening Standard:


CD pirates winning £38bn war
Lisa O'Carroll

MUSIC giants today admitted they are losing the war against pirates as the black market for CDs and cassettes doubled to a massive £38billion.

Bootlegs and near-perfect counterfeits are costing bands such as U2, Pink Floyd and REM millions of pounds a year, the British Phonographic Industry said today.

Sara John, the BPI's head of legal affairs, said: 'Some of the bootlegs are so sophisticated they can even fool the high street chains.' And consumers are being duped into buying poor-quality counterfeit tapes and CDs because the artwork is so good they can pass as the original.

Ms John said Pink Floyd was one of the most pirated bands, with illicit recordings on the market within 48 hours of each concert of their 1994 tour.


MES may have these stories in mind. Or not.
bzfgt
  • 19. bzfgt (link) | 11/11/2017
"It ought to be pointed out that a song can be relevant to Halifax Football Club's experiences without being about their experiences."

I feel like this is a point both of us have made ad infinitum
bzfgt
  • 20. bzfgt (link) | 11/11/2017
Pink Floyd is not a supergroup, and it is a stretch to call Yes one. I hope you find my note 3 adequate, I wouldn't know where to begin with incorporating all this information above.

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